| Posted: 05 Jan 2007 06:10 |
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I'm just curious how they should portray Cap in the movie, I mean I assume its gonna be an origin story that includes him battling Nazis in the 1940's. My question is, would you like to see the Jack Kirby/Stan Lee Cap, that merely knocked out the Nazi soldiers and left them laying in the jungle, or the would you like to see Cap portrayed the way he was in the 65 Anniversary Captain America special by Ed Brubaker, where he was killing Nazis left and right. Obviously the Kirby/Lee Cap was written in an era where not too much violence could be depicted in comic books like it can today. I personally think it makes sense to go with Brubaker's portrayal, it's more realistic, I mean they were in a war, people kill other people in war. But some Silver Age Captain America purists were pissed by the fact that Captain America killed enemy soldiers in the 65th Anniversary.
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2007 15:22 |
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I think I'd go somewhere in the middle. In a war Cap would just about to kill. He wouldn't have time to pull his punches and every enemy soldier left alive might mean the death of a Allied soldier.
On the other hand Cap isn't ruthless so if he knocked out a Nazi, I don't think it would be in his character to go out of his way to make sure the Nazi was dead. Cap should just be shown as not holding anything back in a war. That's my opinion anyway.
I think Stan Lee likes to hold to the idea that superheroes never kill, which for the most part I agree with except in extreme circumstances like war where the lives of the good guys might be in jeopardy. Only characters with powers like Superman could fight a war effectively and not kill anyone since he is invulnerable. If Captain America held completely to the no kill rule in war, he would end up dead.
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2007 21:35 |
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well put
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| Posted: 12 Jan 2007 00:37 |
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This is a good topic. First of all, I don't think they are going to have a CAP movie that is going to have too much WWII in it. I like that idea, but Avi Arad has already stated that he liked the man out of time concept, and I understand. I mean, we are talking about CAP here, not Superman, Spiderman or Batman, where you could have them doing anything anywhere, and people would see the movie. Don't get me wrong, I think CAP should be as popular as those characters but the reality is that CAP is building steam and Marvel just wants the best chance at getting a movie off the ground and having it do well. I support that. I think a WWII movie would be cool, with Red Skull and all, but how bad would it suck to have GOOD CAP movie that the fans liked but did not do very well in the theather and we never got a sequel? Sort of like what happened to the Punisher (I know they are planning a sequel, but where is it?)
Anyway, since I think they are going to sort of do more of the Ultimates thing with CAP, I would like to see a few flash backs where CAP kills, but is conflicted with not killing in the present unless there is absolutey no other choice, like you guys mentioned in war time. However, for the sequels!!! I would like to see a movie that actually has two story lines, one in the present, and one in the past! How do you think that would be? I've been thinking about this for a while and I would really enjoy that. It would be like two different characters that tie in together at the end. You would show a rather young and inexperienced CAP fighting war in Europe and a more hardened, mature CAP the present. I think this would be cool and able to do ALONG the same time or so as an Avengers movie, which I have a feeling they may want to do BEFORE a CAP movie. What do you think?
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| Posted: 12 Jan 2007 16:58 |
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I guess I have to keep stating this topic (But I do have some fresh ideas):
1: That 90s Cap movie, Matt Salinger, watch it, learn from it, KNOW WHAT NOT TO DO!
2: Ultimate Cap: Too abrasive, unfriendly, mean, check out the video, Ultimate Avengers, much better.
3: That two TV Cap pilots: Cap on a cycle, Cap charging into action, good, ... not enough action, needed more money, bigger action, bigger splash.
4: NO time travel. First movie should be Cap in the war, origin, Red Skull's origin, battle, war, explosions, soldiers charging into battle, finishes with Cap becoming hero.
5: Second movie, time travel okay, Cap wakes up in new world, new America, new time, new attitudes, thinking, etc, Can compare to first movie.
Why not make 2 movies? They did that with Superman, Lord of the Rings was 3 movies done in 2 years. I've read that Greystroke, the legend of Tarzan, starring Christopher Lambert, was a 4 + plus hours movie cut down for a 2 hour theatrical release. Note: the Fantastic Four movie wasn't expected to be a big hit, panned and very criticized by the critics, but it went on to make over 150 million in North America, and a second movie coming out in 07.
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| Posted: 12 Jan 2007 17:01 |
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The Punisher wasn't that big a movie though. I liked it ok, but I think it could have stood for a lot more action. It didn't have any action scenes that were huge blockbuster type of scenes. You know the kind you can't stop talking about after you leave the theatre.
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Arad has already stated that he liked the man out of time concept
Just my opinion here, I could be wrong, but I think the more we see Captain America in his own time the more emphasis there would be on "the man out of time" concept when he comes to our time. I think the audience really has to envision him as a patriotic man from WW2 and nothing else and then bring him to our time and let the conflict between old and new begin.
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I would like to see a movie that actually has two story lines, one in the present, and one in the past!
I like the idea as long as it was done right. The cutting back and forth shouldn't be too excessive or it might get confusing. Maybe it could be done where Cap is thinking back. Give us some insight into his character.
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| Posted: 12 Jan 2007 20:30 |
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Food for thought.
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| Posted: 13 Jan 2007 17:19 |
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Those are good points Vincent.
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| Posted: 14 Jan 2007 23:08 |
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I would be amazed if Cap stayed in the 40's for more than the first 15 minutes of the movie.
I do think a classy period piece would be better, but honestly- compare the percentage of "Cap in the 40's" issues with "Cap in the now issues" within the comic over the past ten years and THAT is what you are going to see.
Movie studios are interested in selling their film and other products alongside it. They are only slightly concerned with how "good" a summer blockbuster style film actually is. I mean, geez- Spider-man and its sequal weren't exactly Shakespeare, they just had a huge fan base from whom the studio could pry $10 apiece.
But that is just what got the movie made. That was just a safe bet. What makes any summer blockbuster the goliaths they become are the legions of marketing people that get involved with the casting, the wardrobe, and probably even the script.
The reason? To make the film bearable for females- which as we all know as recovering comic book dorks- makes something in American culture "cool" or "not cool".
Females also have money, YOUR money- so that studio now just made $20 IF her friends/Cosmo Magazine told her "Spider-man 5: The Borderline Romantic Comedy" or "Captain America 8: This Time, Its Emotional" wasn't that bad.
A comic book movie has to appeal to females- or you're going to spend Friday night watching an unholy mating ritual between Slutty Bullock and Moron McConaughey that will leave you knowing you're now half the man you once were.
Of course, "Comic Book Geeks and the Women Who Love Them" has only become a national conversation in the past few years. Studios know they can get another $20 out of couples with ZERO appreciation for comic books.
Consider as Exhibit A the moron in all of our lives who once used our comic book addictions as the consumate "game killer" with females collectively pursued in high school or early college.
Using the dark side, this guy might even have TWO women with him. Now Hollywood has $30, maybe $100 if they buy popcorn.
That bastard now claims to be neutral or even to like comics, since five or so movies have made them almost "cool". But this same guy used to point out to nearby females that "comic book geeks" could only be about as mature as the King of Pop.
"After all," he smugly announced, "comics are for kids".
Unfortunately, someone has given this retard money as well- and Hollywood wants to get it from him.
So don't expect a Cap who says "I shall outsmart my enemies as well as beat them up, while making sure I do nothing to violate my strict moral code."
Don't expect a Cap who says, "I will be a complex, 3-dimensional character and will not speak to other characters in corny one-liners that wouldn't scare anyone except high school English teachers."
That would offend our Exhibit A. Him don't like no smert costume dude. Him want muvie with car crash!
So with this in mind- condsider OUR reality, where Hollywood producers will be thawing Cap out for modern audiences.
1.) He's going to have to "get with the times" to win so he seems current. Cosmo magazine justifies its existance by selling women junk so they can "win" by getting with the times to seem current. Scientifically, Hollywood will read this formula as: Current + women like = cool = money.
2.) He's going to be played by the "it-boy" or up and coming "it-boy" of whatever month in which the movie is realeased. See #1.
3.)He's going to answer the siren song of a "modern woman" and we're all going to sense the irony that at least this part of the script... was written by a gay guy.
4.) He's going to wreck a nice car.
I think the folks on this message board are great and clearly have a better concept of Cap than 90% of those who own the character. However, this film will not be made with us in mind.
Will Cap kill? I think that is so interesting of a question that it deserves its own movie. BUT, because that is a complex question with answers that could never be all things to all people- that one is gonna be glossed over pretty fast in a summer blockbuster.
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| Posted: 14 Jan 2007 23:23 |
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I think they can make a movie that appeals to everyone without ruining Cap's character or the general atmosphere of the movie.
Just add a love interest for Cap for women, and give us comic book action scenes. I admit I don't go to see movies for a bunch of lovey dovey stuff, but giving the action hero a woman he has to protect or wants to go home too after the war makes him human, and helps we the audience to relate to him.
Now what would really be cool is if the writers of the movie would talk to actual World War 2 vets to get a sense how they viewed the world back then making sure they address the questions to how the vets viewed the world in the 40's and not how they might look at things today to get an accurate presentation of Steve Rogers.
I really hope they don't get some wimpy "oh my nails" kind of wimpy writer or director to put this together. They need a real guy, somebody who has experience in the real world or can at least relate to real people. When I watch the Spider-man movies I get a sense that I might know Peter Parker like he could live next door, you know. That's what I want to get while I'm watching a Cap movie. Make Steve Rogers a real guy that lived in the 40's, loved his country, fought for what he believed in, and somehow ended up 60 years in the future.
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| Posted: 16 Jan 2007 23:59 |
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I like the idea of having 2 movies released in 2 years, like they did with LOTR, as stated by Vincent, with one of Cap during WWII and the next one of him awakening in our present day. I also like the idea of 2 coexisting storylines presented by WHO311. Both are great ideas. I'd think that a Captain America movie would have the potential to reach a huge audience of viewers. I mean you'd pick up all of the Comic fans, plus people who love to see war and actions movies, as well as other viewers who are shut off by the unrealistic aspect of superheroes. I mean, Cap is the one of the most realistic heroes along with the Punisher. The Punisher was a great movie and could have done really well in the theatre if it had more publicity, it wasnt very well known when the movie hit theatres.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2007 00:08 |
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Also, Punisher was released the same weekend as Kill Bill Vol. II. Even Marvel admitted that was a stupid idea.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2007 03:54 |
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Let's see. I could go on and on but I'll try not to drone on.
I would like to see it begin like the first Ultimate Avengers movie, 1940's music in the intro (and other elements from the Ultimate Avengers comics and Movie) and Steve Rogers before he was Cap. Then of course, show operation Rebirth in detail. Show that he loves his girlfriend (still trying to figure out who should play her young/old versions) so when he meets her 60 years later it will have emotional impact. There has to be a couple training scenes, one when he first becomes Cap and another after he is unfrozen in the present and has to use modern training methods. A good fight scene from WWII where Cap kicks Nazi ass. Not sure if he should have the mid-evil style shield or the round one for that fight. Show Cap kind of upset at the way America has become over the past 60 years (politics, youth, foreign policy, etc.). Definately needs a scene where he beats up some ruffians and an anti-war protest. Have him fight a modern villian like a Bin-Laden or someone of that nature. There are so many places you can go with the Ultimate American Patriot from the WWII era, put him on ice and shove him into the 21st century.
Here is a list of the actors who should not play Captain America:
Matt Damon (wuss)
Brad Pitt (megawuss)
Matthew McWhatshisname (mega-robo wuss)
The guy who just played Bond (too old)
Basically any actor that women make asses of themselves over.
No effiminate actors, we need a square-jawed tough guy. Casting needs to find an unknown and get him in the gym. It worked like a charm for Christopher Reeve and Brandon Routh.
I did drone on.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2007 19:35 |
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You know I was watching The Legend of Zorro last night for the second time, and you know it had something that most hero movies don't have today and that's that old fashioned swashbucking action that for the most part was done by stunt men. You can always tell when a superhero is doing flips and acrobats via cgi.
I would hope that a Cap movie could throw in a little bit of a sense of humor especially while combatting normal human foes and that they see fit to use real stunt men as much as possible. It comes across as much more exciting I think. When you get a feeling like a real guy could possibly do the action scenes in real life by lots of training or whatever it makes it feel so much more real.
I think the lack of acrobatics hurt the Batman movies. I don't know why the logic has always been with Batman to load him down with such a heavy suit to the point he can barely move. Of all things the Batman should move faster and in more of a spectatular way than your average boxer.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2007 19:43 |
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Oh and corporalamerica fighting a modern villain like Bin Laden would be a great idea. There hasn't been any movie heroes that I can think of lately to take on real life looking terrorist from the middle east.
Hope they go with the round shield right off the bat. I'm not that crazy about the first shield.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2007 19:55 |
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Fighting a modern day threat to the US, like a terrorist leader is a great idea. That is a good way to tap into Cap's roots in our present day. He was created to combat Hitler, and revived to combat Bin Laden. Kinda brings the story full circle.
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| Posted: 18 Jan 2007 10:25 |
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Quote:
Fighting a modern day threat to the US, like a terrorist leader is a great idea. That is a good way to tap into Cap's roots in our present day. He was created to combat Hitler, and revived to combat Bin Laden. Kinda brings the story full circle. Thanks. I thought it would be cool to have Cap fighting in the war against terrorism. Imagine a scene where he finds out about the World Trade Center. Cap could get angry about getting thawed out only to hear about the second attack on America soil since Pearl Harbor. This would give him resolve to combat terror and make America safe again. It would also be interesting to see Cap along side modern troops. Think about how war is different than it was 60 years ago.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 18 Jan 2007 10:32 |
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Quote:
Oh and corporalamerica fighting a modern villain like Bin Laden would be a great idea. There hasn't been any movie heroes that I can think of lately to take on real life looking terrorist from the middle east.
Thank you. I think they could really go places with that idea. Picture Cap uncerimoniously dragging Bin-Laden out of cave while he's unconsious. Quote:
Hope they go with the round shield right off the bat. I'm not that crazy about the first shield. I think it would be better for the fight scene since the old shield can't really be thrown. If we go by the Ultimate Avengers movie he could have the shield slung on his back while hanging on to the missle, hence he's frozen with it. I would also like to see the Red Skull instead of a Shitari (spelling?) trying to stop him.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 18 Jan 2007 23:09 |
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Yeah, I wouldnt wanna see the Shitari either, one of the appeals to some people is that Cap is a realistic character, by adding aliens into the mix, it instantly becomes a sci-fi type movie. Plus, I think 99% of Cap fans would much rather see Cap vs. Red Skull.
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| Posted: 19 Jan 2007 01:45 |
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Yeah, it's got to be the Red Skull vs Cap for the main event or it's not going to be right.
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| Posted: 19 Jan 2007 21:05 |
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Yeah, Red Skull, no Chitari. Leave the aliens for the Avengers movie.
As for the unknown actor: I'm unknown, and I just got out of the gym! I'll chill on that for now as we have all heard it before. But I do like that idea (obiviously).
I would like to add a few names to the list of actors who should also NOT play CAP:
Paul Walker (surfer voice, saw him in person: toothpick build, wuss)
Aaron Eckhart (too old, not right)
Jason Lewis (wussy, wrinkle face, puny)
Josh Heartnett (scrawny, wuss, beady eyes)
I like the stuntman idea too. There was part in Blade II when Blade was flipping around and it was CGI, and it looked horrible.
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| Posted: 19 Jan 2007 21:36 |
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yeah, you can always almost always tell when a superhero is flipping around via cgi. It's stupid when you can use a good stuntman or even the wire method seems to work better than cgi on some of the normal acrobatics.
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| Posted: 19 Jan 2007 22:23 |
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Yeah even stuff we consider good cgi today, will look horrible if we watch it 10 years down the road from now. No crappy cgi means a movie that will leave its mark forever
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2007 00:39 |
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Quote:
Yeah, Red Skull, no Chitari. Leave the aliens for the Avengers movie.
As for the unknown actor: I'm unknown, and I just got out of the gym! I'll chill on that for now as we have all heard it before. But I do like that idea (obiviously).
I would like to add a few names to the list of actors who should also NOT play CAP:
Paul Walker (surfer voice, saw him in person: toothpick build, wuss)
Aaron Eckhart (too old, not right)
Jason Lewis (wussy, wrinkle face, puny)
Josh Heartnett (scrawny, wuss, beady eyes)
I like the stuntman idea too. There was part in Blade II when Blade was flipping around and it was CGI, and it looked horrible.
I think we are going to get along well here! 
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2007 02:37 |
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Well, I was following your lead. I also think that A LOT, if not most, of the actors working today are what I would call girly men, or wusses, as you like to put it.
Here's a few more
Chris Evans (maybe alright, but already Human Torch)
Nathan Fillion (from Firefly. Big goober, and Canadien)
Ryan Reynolds (too jokey, too Canadien)
The Rock (good if he where a white dude. On a side note, I have had people tell me I resemble white Rock, even my Mom recently said this. Not to sound like an a-hole though)
John Cena (what do you think? He kind of intimidates me, not in the he can kick my ass sense, but in the sense that I think he has the look more than I do. I'm a bigger dude [6'3", 230lbs], but I am not as muscular as Cena. Of course he is about 240lbs, at 6'0". He was bodybuilder before rasling!, so I'm sure he has had plenty of "help" with his physique. If I had the "help" he did, I would be 270lbs!)
And yeah, I think we'll get along just fine.
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2007 06:42 |
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Quote:
Well, I was following your lead. I also think that A LOT, if not most, of the actors working today are what I would call girly men, or wusses, as you like to put it. Exactly. Just say it in a 'Hanz and Franz' voice.
Quote:
Here's a few more
Chris Evans (maybe alright, but already Human Torch)
Nathan Fillion (from Firefly. Big goober, and Canadien)
Ryan Reynolds (too jokey, too Canadien) Dont' know the last two guys but the guy who played Johnny Storm sure did a good job of acting like a jerk. Or....was he acting?  I wanted Ben Grimm to squish his head but then I remembered, that is how Johnny Storm is supposed to act.
Quote:
The Rock (good if he where a white dude. On a side note, I have had people tell me I resemble white Rock, even my Mom recently said this. Not to sound like an a-hole though) The Rock is way cool, but not Cap material. Sure wish he was wrestling. If you look like the Rock, that's cool too. I saw a guy in a bar once who looked just like Taz.
Quote:
John Cena (what do you think? He kind of intimidates me, not in the he can kick my ass sense, but in the sense that I think he has the look more than I do. I'm a bigger dude [6'3", 230lbs], but I am not as muscular as Cena. Of course he is about 240lbs, at 6'0". He was bodybuilder before rasling!, so I'm sure he has had plenty of "help" with his physique. If I had the "help" he did, I would be 270lbs!) I am probably not the best person to ask about Cena due to the fact I can't stand the guy. That's a big fat 'No' for Cena as Cap. He has the size and look and I can sort of picture him in the Cap costume. Unfortunately, I would not be able to get past his wrestling charachter. Picture Cap doing the 5 Knuckle Shuffle-yech. And you mentioned 'help' with his physique. What ever do you mean? 
And no Triple H as Conan or Thor. I think I hate him more than Cena.
Quote:
And yeah, I think we'll get along just fine. Cool.
That Mark Valley (think that's his name) looks like he could do it if they want a famous actor. I say get and unknown and get him in the gym, some sort of acrobat/gynastic training and martial arts/military LINE training at least 1 year before filming.
How about Karl Urban as Thor?
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2007 18:40 |
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Steroids=big muscles and small balls
Yeah I'd think Cena would make a great Cap, but you're right, it would be hard to get past his wrestling personality, and it'd be his forst movie right? Who knows how bad of an actor he is, plus Im afraid if he was Cap, people wouldnt take the movie seriously. The Rock's first couple of movies were laughed at and looked down upon by some people, until now when he has established himself as a pretty good actor.
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2007 19:18 |
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Cena was in this movie pretty recently, it just did not do to well: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0419946/
I think Cena has the look, but I don't want him to do it. Maybe since I am an actor, I don't really have a problem with his wrestling. I know that is just an act.
I've heard this Mark Valley name before. I would not call him a big star. I didn't know he was until I looked him up. You do know he is in his mid 40's, right? Check him out: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0885090/
Also, I don't think he would be able to get in shape because of his age and the enormus about of muscle he would have to put on.
I think people like him because he was in the Army and in Desert Storm. He is only 5'11, which could be worked with on screen, but he is just too old and not built enough.
I never heard the Rock's first movie's being laughed at. (I think I saw him the other day by the way, in Santa Monica, CA. If it was him, he was driving a red ZZ Top type car. I see actors all the time living out here, so I usually don't bring it up.) I would think that his action movies would have been right up his alley, but I guess you can never please everybody. Hopefully since I am not a wrestler or anything, I won't have anything to laugh at. We'll see. The Rock kicks ass though.
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2007 19:20 |
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Here is Ryan Reynolds if you don't know who he is, he was in Blade Trinity :http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005351/
And Nathan Fillion: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0277213/
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| Posted: 20 Jan 2007 21:26 Last Edited By: Tim |
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You know Arnold Schwarzenegger used to be considered a really bad actor being all muscle body builder type and all but look at the Terminator movies. He was perfect at playing a robot. So maybe a body builder or a wrestler could play Cap.
Almost forgot the Rock isn't blond like Cap but he's a really good actor to watch.
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