| Posted: 12 Feb 2010 15:42 |
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This was on the front of Yahoo news this morning.
Quote:
Issue 602 of the comic features Captain America investigating a right-wing anti-government militia group called "the Watchdogs". Hoping to infiltrate the group, Captain America and his African-American sidekick The Falcon observe an anti-tax protest from a rooftop. The protestors depicted are all white and carry signs adorned with slogans almost identical to those seen today in Tea Party rallies like "tea bag libs before they tea bag you" and "stop the socialists."
Quote:
The Falcon mentions that the gathering appears to be "some kind of anti-tax protest" and notes that "this whole 'hate the government' vibe isn't limited to the Watchdogs." He then tells Captain America that he doesn't think their plan will work because "I don't exactly see a black man from Harlem fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks." Captain America then explains that his plan entails sending The Falcon in among the group posing as an IRS agent under the thinking that a black government official will most certainly spark their anger.
Quote:
Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Joe Quesada spoke to Comic Book Resources and defended the issue while apologizing for the panel that seemed to tie real-life Tea Party protesters to the fictional group depicted in the book.
Saying that he could "absolutely see how some people are upset about this," Quesada said that there was "zero discussion to include a group that looked like a Tea Party demonstration," adding, "There was no thought that it represented a particular group."
Quesada then went on to say that Marvel would "apologize for and own up to" a series of "stupid mistakes" that led to them "accidentally identifying" one of the members of the protest group "as being a part of the Tea Party instead of a generic protest group." He explained that they were on deadline to get the issue to the printer for publication, and in the course of sending it off it was noticed that the signs in the scene contained no words or phrases. He said the editor then asked the letterer to "fudge in some quick signs" and that in the "rush to get the book out of the door," the letterer "looked on the net and started pulling slogans" from signs captured in photographs at Tea Party protests in order to make them appear "believable."
In response to Marvel's explanation and apology, Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips told Yahoo! News that it "sounds less like a genuine 'we're sorry' than it does a 'we're sorry we got caught' statement."
source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100211/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1129
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| Posted: 12 Feb 2010 16:26 |
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Well on a high note, any press is good press right? This will have a few more people diving into the pages of Captain America just to see what all the fuss is about and if it will continue to be this way.
__________________"--When the mob and the Press and the whole WORLD tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world 'No you move'."
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| Posted: 12 Feb 2010 17:25 Last Edited By: grexxy |
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it could be argued that of the three issues mentioned (the tea party reference, the black man reference, the black irs agent reference) the first one is ambiguous, the second one is slightly in character (if you harken back to a 70s Falcon) and it is the third issue that is truly unforgivable.
Would Cap really say that??? If I were the writer, or the editor, he wouldn't. But that is just me.
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| Posted: 12 Feb 2010 19:47 |
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It seems to me that the only mistake they made was the tea party reference on the protest sign. If they hadn't included that all the other complaints would be moot.
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| Posted: 12 Feb 2010 20:41 Last Edited By: Matches |
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The really sad thing is that if you go to the Marvel Board, just dozen's of people have signed up who have never read Cap or at least had abandoned the book years ago to protest it, without ever even reading the Book.
They just released the preview for 603
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=4430
And it looks like it's going to be a much more complex discussion about the people who are protesting and why.
As always, some pundant takes a story out of context for their own personal agrandizment and get's a lot of hot air blowing for little results.
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| Posted: 13 Feb 2010 13:26 |
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Personally I think it would be pretty easy to write up the group with which Steven Rogers has become involved as a deeply concerned, if somewhat misguided, group of American citizens.
It also doesn't take a black IRS agent to get people hot under the collar. The taxman (of any colour) is an enemy who unites all others.
I can seriously see Captain America and the Red Skull putting aside their differences in order to crush a group of IRS agents.
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| Posted: 13 Feb 2010 16:13 |
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Freman,
good point about a taxman of any color!!! hahaha!!!
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| Posted: 13 Feb 2010 16:25 |
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"I can seriously see Captain America and the Red Skull putting aside their differences in order to crush a group of IRS agents. "
lol true that.
__________________"--When the mob and the Press and the whole WORLD tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world 'No you move'."
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| Posted: 13 Feb 2010 17:13 |
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I`ve read it a couple of times and still don`t see what the big deal is. The Tea Party was made out eaxactly like they are, a group of people upset with the nation`s state of things and the signs were actual signs the party use. As for the whole black thing, other than Sam`s comment about being the only black guy in a group of angry white folks...whats so bad about that?
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| Posted: 13 Feb 2010 22:30 |
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I wouldn't get upset ping, I don't roll like that.
However you have to remember that there are a lot of people that base their arguments on the "I'm upset, so you're wrong" routine that has stifled public debate.
My general response to people who say that is "truth hurts, doesn't it" and move on.
Don't argue with stupid people, they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
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| Posted: 14 Feb 2010 03:04 |
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Well Folks,
I brought this “tea bag issue” (Cap 602) up a few weeks ago and I was politely told I was making to much of it. Obviously I was not, It has been on the news for the past few days because it hit a nerve. Tea bag people = bad people/rasist people/evil people, watch out for them readers! If the story was Cap and Falcon fight the racist group, the Watch Dogs, in this small American town, that would have been the end of it. But No, the "someone" added that stuff later on folks at marvel got caught being extra bias. Someone said it better in another reply, Cap is about the best of American ideals not about some political party, or who is in power at the moment. Cap is about the best of American ideals. Again as someone said “ well it just a story" yep it is a story, a story that affects a character we love, who does wear the stars and stripes, and who does stand for what our country tries to be.
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| Posted: 14 Feb 2010 15:59 |
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Exactly where in the story did they show the protesters as either A) racist or B) Violent?
The only violence in the book is by Bucky throwing Sam out of the Bar.
The only arguable racism in the book is Sam assuming that the protesters wouldn't welcome him.
What you are doing is making an assumption about something based on a surface reading of the issue.
In fact, take a look at the protestors, you'll see that there are a number of smiling little old ladies, and gernally down trodden looking americans.
Note that when Sam and Bucky have their big confrontation there isn't even a big hurrah, most people are just minding their own business...except for the actual violent extremeists.
So. All in all, any assumptions that the protestors are violent is yours. Any assumptions that the protestors are racist are yours. There is nothing in the text or the art to suggest that.
There is a protest, just like the hundreds of protests around the country of people worried about taxes, spending, and jobs. That dissatisfaction is a real element of our world, and the insertion of these real elements are what make marvel books better than their competition.
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| Posted: 15 Feb 2010 01:58 |
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My point was these that “ being violet, being racist” was what some of the folks saw or read in this story line. When I read those scenes, I saw the demonstrators in a bad and negative light. A light that, in my opinion, was and is not what the tea party folks are about. From my experience at being at and participating in these type of "tea party" demonstrations, they are (99% of the time), pro-American, pro-country, well mannered folks who are (as you stated) not happy with there representatives, not happy with the taxes, not happy with government waste. That is what the tea parties have been trying to get across to our leaders. So, with all due respect, that is what I, and others, was objecting to
Thanks to all for their time.
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| Posted: 15 Feb 2010 03:35 |
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Jedge...again...look at the art. Exactly how are these people portrayed in a negative light?
I see a smiling old lady waveing a flag. I see signs that say America not Americant (yeah that would be better as American not Americant) but still, the crowd is not shown as being in a negative light.
There is no chanting from the crowd in the book, nothing to suggest they are doing anything other than joining together in peaceful democratic solidarity.
Any assumption is somthing you are putting into it not someting that was placed in the art.
In the depiction (again in which the most prevelant image is the American Flag) there is nothing to suggest that these people are not patriots.
Now, if they had wanted to suggest that these protesters are violent or dangerous they could have shown them shouting down counter protesters. Shown them brandishing weapons. Shown them displaying questionably racially insensitive signage. Such images would have been in line with images that have shown up at such protests, and have been arguably highlighted by those with an axe to grind (let's say liberal media types).
So, to sum up. If they wanted to suggest a direct connection with the protesters and the watchdogs, they could have. Instead they intentionally showed that they were not in league. What more do you want?
Would you rather that they didn't give voice to the disatisfaction that many american feel with regard to the state of our country?
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| Posted: 15 Feb 2010 04:47 |
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Jedge, I happen to agree with Matches on this point. He and I disagree on other issues and I suspect he leans more to the left and I to the right.
While I don't like the signs (particularly the one about tea bagging--since it is from a rather crude s*xual connotation)I do think Marvel's point that the racism is more Sam's perception that white folk wouldn't like him. And their point that Sam has always been a little extreme on the left side of things is true (read the 70s comics).
That said, I think Marvel also didn't just accidentally put that in there. I think it garners attention and they love attention to a comic that happens to be for one of their soon-to-be-released movie franchises.
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| Posted: 15 Feb 2010 08:43 |
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Any press is good press...unfortunately. I just think it's funny that the media tries to insult the tea party protestors by calling them "teabaggers" - I know it's better to be the teabagger and not the teabagee. Also, to give props to the IRS bash, my property taxes went up $750 this year. What is wrong about protesting that? This is America for God's sake. Anyone jumping on the birther Obama thing or using his race as a platform for objection is an ass, but I am fully on board w/ protest against higher taxes. Hopefully, this is good in the long run. I know more of my non comic reading friends are aware of Cap now more than ever, so I can't protest too strongly, but it was hasty and shallow, which does the true fans no justice. Other than that, I have no deep seeded issues with the overall story.
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| Posted: 15 Feb 2010 11:16 |
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That's true, I sometimes wonder if Malcom X created the Falcon. He does have a chip on his shoulder big enough to feed the statue of liberty.
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