| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 00:17 |
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Hey all,
I was thinking about reading the Civil War graphic novels, but I have a question: Without really spoiling it for me, the whole pro-registration act, do you guys take the side of Cap or Iron Man and the others and why? I'm assuming most will side with Cap, then again, maybe not..?? Thanks
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 00:40 Last Edited By: pingclang |
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I sided with Cap but not JUST because it was his side. I sided with the group that chose freedom over security. Although comic book characters, super-humans have rights just the same as any other human and thus it wasn`t fair to ask them to give up their secrets and their lives JUST so people would know who they were and what they were capable of. As all Americans should be, I felt that freedom and not the stealing of rights, was the side to be on. Hope that makes since without giving anything away. No one, for any reason, should have their rights taken away. Their rights, as silly as it sounds, to have powers and hide behind a mask so no one can do harm to them or their families. Makes since I guess, but I can also see why one would want to know what a man known for commited crimes was if he suddenly gained amazing abilities. But in the long run, yeah, Cap`s side was the best.
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 02:42 |
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I don't want to repeat the exact thing pingclang just said, but yeah I feel the exact way he does on it.
While reading Civil War, I thought Tony Stark, Reed Richards & company were total dicks at times.
It's difficult to explain without giving stuff away from the storyline, so go read it.
Don't just read the Civil War book either, read in the tie ins from Fantastic Four, Iron Ma, & Spider-Man books. It's best to read them in proper order also, rather then reading all of Civil War first then going to read another superhero book tie in.
I was pretty happy with Cap and Spider-Man in the Civil War storyline.
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 04:03 |
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While reading it, I was siding with Cap, of course. In comics, secret identities are fun and give an extra added layer to the character.
But, if this was real life, I'd side with Iron Man. Would you really want masked vigilantes running around taking the law into their own hands without accountability? Would you want your police force to be masked? Because what happens if something goes wrong or if laws are broken? You and the law don't know who to arrest and prosecute.
It has nothing to do with protecting their freedom anymore than protecting the freedom of a villain to wear a mask. They have no right to being a secret vigilante.
Checks and Balances. Transparency. Accountability. You have less of that if one can hide behind a mask and less Freedom FOR ALL without it.
Thank you! Please Vote Atomic in 2012!! 
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 04:24 Last Edited By: Stars and Stripes |
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Quote:
Would you really want masked vigilantes running around taking the law into their own hands without accountability? Would you want your police force to be masked? Because what happens if something goes wrong or if laws are broken? You and the law don't know who to arrest and prosecute.
I have to disagree. I'm with Cap all the way. Just because you've got these powers and you're willing to help people, doesn't mean you have to give away your identity. It is not just to make someone register with the government in able to use your powers for the greater good. Remember back in 1969, when Cap had revealed to the world that he was Steve Rogers? That mistake almost got him killed. He realized that later.
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 04:33 |
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Checks and Balances. Transparency. Accountability. You have less of that if one can hide behind a mask and less Freedom FOR ALL without it.
Thank you! Please Vote Atomic in 2012!!
LOL You crack me up bro! 
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 05:06 |
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I have to disagree. I'm with Cap all the way. Just because you've got these powers and you're willing to help people, doesn't mean you have to give away your identity. It is not just to make someone register with the government in able to use your powers for the greater good. Remember back in 1969, when Cap had revealed to the world that he was Steve Rogers? That mistake almost got him killed. He realized that later.
I'm talking real world scenarios here. Like I mentioned, in the comics, I LOVE secret identities!
Take our police or armed forces for example. Their identities are not plastered out there for all to see so that the bad guys can track down their families. But their identities are known by their superiors, co-workers, and enough people that if their identity needs to be found if the go rogue, break the law, or whatever, it can be done. It helps keep things in check. Keep in mind, Stark and the Pro-Reg side were not releasing the names to the entire public but had the data base for a select few in case something like Stamford happened again and the public wanted accountability.
Also, if Steve realized that his identity reveal almost got him killed in 1969, so how come he revealed his identity again during the post 9-11 Marvel Knights Cassaday/Reiber run?
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 07:14 Last Edited By: ServeAndProtect |
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This is a great question...
I am a police officer and trust me when I say that I put an incredible amount of thought into this while I was reading...
I agree with atomic that in the real world we cannot have masked vigilantees. Especially when one accidentally blows people up. That just stresses that special training is needed to prevent mishaps. This is exactly why our police officers and armed forces go though so much training.
However, in comic book land (Marvel Universe) I have to understand Cap's point of view about not wanting his friends and family hurt.... trust me, that is something that I have to consider regularly in my line of work..... and I'm not exactly battling super-villans. In a world of Superheros if you take away the secret identities of these people and impose restrictions and guidelines, the bad guys guys will still not abide by this. It is very similar to gun control... If you take guns away from the good citizens then only the bad guys and the police will have them. It is a double edged sword.... because the lack of safety training to prevent accidents is a problem.
With all of that said, I was able to side with Cap on this because he did not take this to the next level only because he did not agree with this the law... They told him to go an round up all of his other heros, including his friends, or get locked up. That is where the government crossed the line. Expecting him to register is one thing, but forcing him to be their enforcer when he never offered to do so is another, and a definite violation of Civil Rights. I could go on forever about this especially since none of my friends are comic book fans and this is my opportunity to vent!
Good question Fighting Yank, very though provoking.
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 07:18 |
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I sided with the Anti Reg side.
First off, I thought the premise was ridiculous. How many times have heroes and villains destroyed huge tracks of downtown NY, Metropolis, or what have you? Plus, Nitro blew up the school, not the New Warriors.
Secondly, if a police officer accidentally shoots an innocent bystander, does the government then require all police officers to take training and reveal intimate personal details? It just didn't make sense.
Additionally, I think we have lost a lot with our superheroes now that they are Steve and Tony and Clint instead of Captain America, Iron Man, and Hawkeye. When they had identities there were opportunities for stress of managing those two sides, there were friends other than other supers. Realistically, who can these guys date other than other supers? Who can they hang out with and where? It has taken away a level of depth to the characters that I miss.
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 08:53 |
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As a libertarian I was naturally anti registration. It's hard to know what to say and what not to say, I don't want to spoil it for you so I'll speak in generalities as much as possible.
I firstly felt that the catalyst was absurd. Not only was the villain not blamed for the incident, all super heroes were blamed for the actions of a few. That's plain collectivist thinking and against everything I stand for.
I felt Tony Stark was more about saving his rep than actually doing what is right.
Individual freedom is absolute. Not only did the registration act demand that every super hero and super powered individual register with the govt (whether working or not), in order to work they had to work for the Govt. A bureaucrat getting marching orders from the govt with the govt saying who is and is not the enemy. In addition, anyone with powers can be drafted by the govt even if they have chosen to stop working. I would NOT support that in real life, let alone in a comic world.
SHIELD and the Govt can not be trusted with secret identities. They are basically corrupt and the person that is given responsibility at the end is an irrational lunatic who will blame anyone except those responsible for evil.
Finally, the Registration Act would not achieve security. The villains aren't exactly going to register are they? If they could be captured under this Act they could be captured before it. Making the heroes the slaves of the State won't stop villains being villains.
There will always be foolish hot shots and braggarts. Government training and government control will not change that. Hell, how many stories are their constantly of hot shot cops, bureaucrats, politicians, soldiers, that go against the rules, cause damage, destroy lives, AND DON'T EVEN GET PUNISHED!
The Government can't protect you from accidents and maniacs, the Super Registration Act can't protect the Marvel Universe from accidents and maniacs.
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It has nothing to do with protecting their freedom anymore than protecting the freedom of a villain to wear a mask. They have no right to being a secret vigilante.
I absolutely disagree. They have the right to do as they want so long as they don't initiate force on another. Everyone has the right to defensive force and that includes defending others against the initiation of force.
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 16:05 |
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Wow, thanks for the input guys. "I've created a monster" Anyhow, good job on the responses and you all really haven't given anything away to me. Nicely done.
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| Posted: 21 Jan 2010 20:39 |
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Also, if Steve realized that his identity reveal almost got him killed in 1969, so how come he revealed his identity again during the post 9-11 Marvel Knights Cassaday/Reiber run?
I don't know. I never read that one. I'm not sure what Steve's reasons would be for that.
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