| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 02:30 |
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Now I'm doing a double post. I just read some interesting comments on Superherohype under the article of Joe Johnston's comments. The poster was GhostofSparta and he/she seemed to have inside info on the script.
This poster said that the movie starts with Nick Fury talking about this incredible WWII hero and thus goes the story. The movie ends with him and Shield thawing out the hero to complete the Avenger's initiative to save the world from some dire threat.
Further, this informant says that Cap goes AWOL to save someone, but it isn't Bucky, it's a fellow soldier from another country that later becomes a villain.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 04:57 |
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This is called, "Bookends", I certainly don't like it. Princess Bride had Peter Falk telling the movie to a child. The original black+white Invasion of the Body Snatchers had the hero relating a story on how plant monsters were replacing humans in a small town (The 70s version was the best and way scarier). That Young Indiana Jones tv show had a curmongen old man relate his adventures. Worst of all was Stan Lee's bookend monologues for the 90s ABC Iron man and Fantastic Four cartoons.
Having Sam Jackson's Nick Fury tell the story of Captain America just sound awful, it'll be like an authority figure reading this story from a dossier or file, ...
Every Indiana Jones movie begins with an adventure and a time stamp, ...simple, easy to do, get's right to the action and heart of the movie. Bookends just sound like manipulation of the 'suits' sitting at the meeting table yakking away with lines like 'that won't work' 'the audience won't get it' 'that won't sell' 'this will do', ...
Wait, Titanic had this 'bookend' thing going and that movie made Billions, through the narrating woman's eyes didn't match the color of her 'younger self'. But I don't see that gimmick working for a Cap movie. It's 1941, Cap's a golden age comic hero, known worldwide as WW2 hero, let it be a nostalgic action war movie.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 05:30 |
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I would love for them to start with the plane taking off and Cap and Bucky trying to stop it. Then flash back.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 05:42 |
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SAVING PRIVATE RYAN had "bookends" too.
Old Indy got edited out on the DVD releases, BTW. I guess it does work better without him but I hate the tinkering. One TV movie that they kept the "bookending" was THE MYSTERY OF THE BLUES which had Harrison Ford's TRUE 4th appearance as Indy in the 1950s telling about a past yarn.
I think, as Cap fans, we are so close to the character that we have strong opinions on how it should be done. The downside to this is we could be setting ourselves up for not liking the movie if there are too many changes or a different direction on how we believe things should be done.
I know how I would like things: WWII period movie with a bit of Indiana Jones thrown in. And we know how we'd like the costume to be and who we prefer to play the role. But ultimately, I know I have to back off a little and let them make their movie and hope they get it right and save my judgment for that screening day next year.
I'll eagerly await any little scrap of news leading up to the movie but have to keep my "reactionary fanboy opinions" in check in case it doesn't match with the movie already in my head.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 07:25 Last Edited By: Stars and Stripes |
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Here's how I would do it: Begin with Steve as a kid, and end with the scene on the plane. Bucky is killed and Cap falls into the ocean, screaming his name. And then flash to some other guys in the war talking about it about what great heroes they both were, and what they had done for their country.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 13:34 |
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Thanks for the heads up on the Young Indiana Jones series, the studio was asking a lot for this 90s series, when it hits a reasonable sale price I'll probably pick it up.
I would rather have the Cap movie start with Cap smashing into a warehouse on a motorcycle with that Tri-shield, beating up lots of thugs and spies. Flashback to his origin, gets a new shield, Pearl harbor and then Cap goes to war, fights Red Skull, big action, meets Agent 13 or Peggy Carter; Throw in lots of explosions, fights, stunts, soldiers, and ends with Cap charging back into action (or have him carrying an American flag -- too much?).
Leave the plane explosion and frozen in ice for the Avengers movie. Just a fan, not a power-that-be. Don't want to relive the expectations I had for that 90s Cap movie and then the denial and dissappointment on how bad that movie was.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 16:43 |
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I don't know...the Sam Jackson giving the Cap Story at the start and finish seems fine.
It all depends on how it's handled. I do wonder if we're going with the Ultimates Fury story line here (where he is part of the second super soldier program) and has first had recolections of Cap, or if he's just a modern character reading from the file.
I see the concept as bringin cap into the story as a real seriel feel. That you go firect from the Cap to the Avengers.
If the person he saves becomes the Villain, I wonder if that person becoems the Skull...or perhaps, Lukin.
That might be interesting. So perhaps you have a skull story line, perhaps a cosmic cube story, and the Cap saves his buddy lukin, not realizing that after the war he becoem KGB, and later the cleptocrat that uses what's left of the cube to increase his power only to have the Skull merged with his mind).
It's a very differnt Cap and AVengers story, but I think it could be very good.
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| Posted: 17 Jan 2010 17:20 |
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Matches, that's sort of what I was thinking, too. I think the story will involve the Russians and Cap saving a Russian soldier who then becomes a villain, though I'm not familiar with Lukin.
I don't have a problem with the bookend approach either. Roger Stern used it in a way when he wrote his comic on the origin of Cap. He had Roosevelt reading a file.
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| Posted: 18 Jan 2010 02:49 |
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Lukin was the main villain in the begining of the Winter Soldier Story Line.
He had pieced together a cosmic cube (not realizing it contained the Skull's mind) and after it was destroyed, the Skull wound up in his mind.
The Skull and lukin then worked together to kill Cap, so that the Skull could transfer into Steve's Body. Unfortunatly for Lukin, he was killed by Sharon Carter before that could happen.
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| Posted: 02 Feb 2010 16:58 |
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source: http://www.superherohype.com/news/captainamericanews.php?id=9030
"We're in prep," Johnston says. "Rick Heinrichs is production-designing and we're set up down in Manhattan Beach [California]. It's the part of the process that I love the most," he enthuses. "We have eight or ten really talented artists, and we all just sit around all day and draw pictures and say, 'Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could do this?' It's that phase of the production where money doesn't matter: βLet's put all the greatest stuff up on the wall and [then later] see what we can afford.'" The film, he says at this early stage, will begin "in 1942, 1943" during World War II. "The stuff in the β60s and β70s [comic books] we're sort of avoiding. We're going back to the β40s, and then forward to what they're doing with Captain America now."
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| Posted: 02 Feb 2010 18:16 |
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That's cool, it's nice to see it moving forward (still would really like to know who is playing Cap). Now if only someone could leak some of those pictures they're drawing.
In saying that they are going forward to what they're doing with Captain America now, I wonder if the they is SHIELD as in what SHIELD is doing with Captain America now, or if They are Marvel as in what Marvel is doing with Captain America Now.
I was really hoping the Winte Solder and Bucky might be a part of this mythos, so it would be cool if they are going to bring the Cap story up to date with the characters. Though of course that's a whole lot of back story.
Now we just need some giant sleeper robots and we've got ourselves a movie.
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| Posted: 02 Feb 2010 21:13 |
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OK seriously, they need to shit or get off the pot already. What's with all the hush hush? The movie opens 2 months after Thor and Thor is already filming. Sorry to burst your bubbles guys, but this isn't looking too good.
Cast? Nothing yet. Filming location? A maybe.
I mean they are still looking at production designing? I sense a trainwreck.....
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| Posted: 02 Feb 2010 22:37 |
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Yank I couldn't agree with you more.
It appears that Johnston is going to flush this down the toilet and what ticks me off is that Marvel is going to stand by and let him do it.
Ok now, let's all say it together, "1990" !!!
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| Posted: 03 Feb 2010 04:40 |
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Well I for one have some low expectations.
Does Wolfman failure = Captain America failure??
Here's a nice, short little blog.
http://www.ugo.com/movies/does-the-fate-of-captain-america-rest-o ...
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| Posted: 03 Feb 2010 22:44 |
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Hope for the best, expect the worst I suppose. 
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| Posted: 04 Feb 2010 04:22 |
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I wouldn't fault Joe for the Wolfman, necessarily. He came in to fix a trouble production, from what I read, and that can be tricky.
I've watched most of the films out there that Joe has directed (since I'm a fanboy and wanted to do some research). Hidalgo was a good flick. October Sky was a very good drama. As I recall The Rocketeer was really good, too. Jumanji was okay, but I didn't care for the story.
As for the biggest film of late, Jurassic Park 3, it was directed very well (except for the satellite phone ringing in the dinosaur's stomach) but had to suffer under a pretty lame script. I thought Joe brought out good performances from everyone and the special effects were great.
One thing concerns me right now: Joe recently said "I'm not really a comic book fan."
I don't know why someone would sign on to direct a comic book movie if they're not a fan of the genre or the hero. But perhaps I'm reading too much in there. He might be telling the average person that he's not a comic geek and will make a movie they will enjoy as well as the fan base.
I hope that is the actual case because it would also fit with why he might say it is "based on the comic" but goes off in a totally new direction. I think he may be planning a Christopher Nolan take on Cap that will make fanboys happy as well as the general audience.
Bottom line, Wolfman looks pretty good in the trailers. Joe has done some pretty big movies and has some decent ones (including an Oscar movie..October Sky) under his belt. No one thought Sam Raimi would have done as well as he did with Spider-man after seeing the Evil Dead and A Simple Plan, but he turned out to be wonderful.
I'll hold off on my worries until I start to see casting and designs that look terrible. Until then, Joe's still better than the joker who did the Fantastic Four (THAT was bad!)
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| Posted: 04 Feb 2010 05:17 |
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Joe Johnson does have a pretty good track record. He's done movies/tv in the right time period. Done drama. Done Action. Done special effects.
It's all the little things that don't add up.
1. Troubled production on current project.
2. Will have to rush casting/production for Cap. (And now a days 17 months is not a lot of time to do a big budget movie start to finish).
3. Going to go off in completely different direction. Really!!?? Nothing you could find in the last 40+ years?? Really!!?? No Lee, Starenko, Kirby, DeMatties, Gruenwald, Waid, Brubaker stuff to use a main source? No story line that's caught your eye??!!
4. Not a comic fan? Okay, you don't need to be Fan Boy, but you should at least have some interest in the genre. (See JJ Abrams commentary on Star Trek. Not Fan Boy, but a fan.)
So, can he do it. Yes it can be done well. But there are already a couple of strikes against him.
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| Posted: 04 Feb 2010 16:04 |
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One thing that I'm encourage by is the fact he did October Sky. That is a very well done period piece. He got it right on that one. It just felt like the 50's, which tells me he can do the 40's justice as well. I do wish he was a comic fan though.
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| Posted: 04 Feb 2010 20:06 |
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Maybe I'm just a cockeyed optimist but here's my thinking.
The Casting is probably further along than we think. We know there have been rumors,and even perhaps a few campaigns by notable actors for the piece. It's possible that it is a very short list and that they are keeping the casting very tightly wraped so as to avoid fan backlash if they go with someone who is not an action star. If they go with a guy who is for example a great actor but not the physical type we think of for Cap, there could be backlash that they don't want to deal with while the guy is going through boot camp to look like Cap. Really if you had a month, no job, and a drill instructor yelling at you 12 hours a day, you could look like Cap too. They don't want to say oh yeah, here's are new cap, because the publicity stills they throw out won't look like Cap. The other option is that there are two or three guys that are on the list and they don't want to reveal it yet because they are in negotiations. They know it will be one or two guys (who may not know the others are on the list too) but havn'e hammerd out the final nail and no one wants to squak out of turn so you get silence. A third option is they have a guy, and it's a guy you haven't heard of, so there isn't much sense is saying Captain America is Irwin Forbush and have every one say "Who"? So they are likely working on other things (costuming and effects) to release with the name so that it seems more impressive.
Here is the thing. They have a script. Once you have a script everything else can go very quickly, especilly if you have a known product that people are looking to get into. So they can likely cast cap very quickly, and all the supporting characters likewise can be put together in a couple of weeks. Because they have the script they know what kind of Cap they want, because they have the script they know what kind of effects they need, because they have the script they know what locations they are going to need. all those things, handled by a dozen other folks on the team can bring it all together lickity split.
It's entirely possible that Joe has his cap picked and they've agreed in principle, but that the agent and the studio are hammering out action figure rights. No one can or will say anything in that situation since no one wants to weaken their position (say due to fan backlash or fan support).
I figure someone is getting paid a lot more than me to make sure this film goes out on time. So I'm not going to worry about it until they do.
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| Posted: 05 Feb 2010 02:53 |
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From SCI FI Wire...
http://scifiwire.com/2010/02/captain-america-casting-c.php
"We need to cast it soon," Johnston said. "We have a very short list, but we're still juggling actors here. I'd say within the next couple of weeks we'll have ourselves a Captain America, I hope."
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| Posted: 05 Feb 2010 03:50 |
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I'm going to side with Matches on this one. I suspect Joe knows who it's going to be, but they can't say due to negotiations and signatures.
Plus, given that he says "next couple of weeks" and that just so happens to coincide with his Wolfman debut, I think it is more than likely that the casting reveal will occur at or around Wolfman's opening weekend during the media blitz.
Anthony Hopkins is taking the tour and dropping little tidbits about Thor as well. Both Thor and Cap will get some press with Wolfman.
I think Wolfman will likely do pretty well at the box based on its trailers. Regardless, it will garner some attention because of the buzz for Thor (Hopkins) and Cap (Johnston). People will be curious about the film due to the director and the actor. Thus, it will help Wolfman to take advantage of Marvel's upcoming slate.
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2010 04:11 |
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Actor Chad Michael Murray is rumored to be one of two candidates for Captain America. So, they are going with a CW heartthrob actor? I checked out his specs and he has some acting experience, but since I'm not a thirteen year-old girl, I'm not familiar with his work.
He looks the part. But can he act?
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2010 20:49 |
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It sounds like Joe Johnson has the right attitude and vision from what I've read so far. I like that he's leaning toward a WWII period piece that brings Cap into modern times, following the Ultiamtes story lines. I really hope he uses the Ultimate Cap uniforms, both from WWII and modern Ultimate Cap. NO WINGS, NO SHORT SHORTS AND NO BUCCANEER BOOTS, PLEASE!
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2010 22:17 |
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GOT TO HAVE THE WINGS, BUCCANEER BOOTS and even those wavy gloves. Deviate too much, too much costume change, and it isn't a Cap movie.
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2010 22:32 |
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The Ultimates storyline would be OK, but it has to be the classic Cap uniform.
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| Posted: 07 Feb 2010 04:51 |
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Classic Cap costume, please. I've seen the wings done goofy, but I've seen them done very well, too.
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| Posted: 07 Feb 2010 16:39 |
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I think from what has been suggested elsewhere, everyone will get something.
I would wager his costume at the begining will be very similar to his standard uniform, and his later costume will be more akin to the Ultimate design.
Sort of a dress uniform and his fatigues.
Which of course means more action figures to sell!
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