| Posted: 10 Nov 2009 01:40 |
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Exactly, Americans were trained to SAY nothing, to die with dignity, instead of tell everything and THEN die...*Gasp* Captain America scene...
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2009 00:06 |
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http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/Poniverse/news/?a=11929
The Rock?
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2009 05:47 |
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One problem, Matches, you forgot about the bad cop. You can't have just a good cop and expect a comfy terrorist to spill it.
I'm afraid your lack of congeniality is a little hard to take. I extended the hand of civility and you slap it.
I'll disagree with you. I also see that you are self-absorbed and intolerant.
I suspect that if you or your loved ones were in danger, you'd hope someone puts the proverbial screws to someone to save you or your family's life.
But you don't have to agree. 
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2009 17:14 |
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I think it's like everything else in life. It depends on the situation. To say never ever use means that might just be considered torture under any circumstance is kind of dumb. To torture prisoners as a rule is definitely not a good American practice either.
But like if a terrorist knows info that will save lives and nothing gets him to spill the beans and you only got 20 minutes. Well desperate times call for desperate actions. Call in Jack Bauer and go for a walk.
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2009 20:29 Last Edited By: Matches |
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Tim, how do you know he has information that could save lives? That's the sticky wicket, you don't, all you can do is torture, and hope that you get information that is usable, and hope that you'll recognize it when you get it.
Saying you can't say never torture, is like saying, well we can't say never to genocide. Sure we can, we can say we aren't going to be a nation that does these things.
There are aspects of enhanced interogation that aren't torture, I will give you that, and in that grey area, sure if an interogator makes that judgement call I'm not going to second guess him, but waterboarding isn't in that grey area, it never has been and never will be, unless people of no concience make that choice.
Super America, good cop bad cop works like this a bad cop says, boy we're going to hang you high, leaves the room and the good cop ingratiates himself. It isn't bad cop, beats and tortures the suspect, and the good cop ingratiates himself. That can work (and actually it works best when there is only one guy alternating between the two rolls)but it's actually not interegation, it's brain washing, and the moral cost isn't worth the small benefit you might receive.
Look at history, look at how we broke the nazis. If you really feel terrorists are worse than nazis than I can't make an argument you'll accept.
Now, getting back to the subject at hand, The Rock as Cap. I'm not opposed to it, but I do think he might be a little tall, and I don't really know if he's a good enough actor. Even though he has stated he's african american he could certainly "pass" with blonde hair. Anyway, the article doesn't look like he's really being considered, just that he would love the part, and who wouldn't?
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2009 23:16 |
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Quote:
Tim, how do you know he has information that could save lives? But like I said if it's a desperate situation you may not have much of a choice.
The Rock is black? I thought he was like an Hawaiian or something like that?
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| Posted: 21 Nov 2009 02:43 |
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Sorry, Matches, but I still draw a line between torture and enhanced interrogation. As for relying on information, no matter what they do-be it lowering the temperature, disorienting a subject or roughing them up or dumping water on them, they always ask questions to which they know the answer as a test to see if they will tell the truth. They keep up the good cop/bad cop and the enhanced methods until they get a reliable answer to the question they already know. Then they know they've broken the subject.
There is a science to interrogation that I think you may not be aware of. I'd be interested in how much you really know about the interrogation techniques used on the Nazis. As I've heard from Pat Buchannan, he and others picked up spies, put them through military tribunals and executed them without remorse.
Regarding the topic of The Rock playing Cap, I'm not convinced he'd play the role well. I like him, but I just don't see him as Cap. I would like to see him as the Black Panther, maybe, or even The Falcon (though I'd prefer Will Smith for that role).
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| Posted: 21 Nov 2009 04:25 |
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SuperAmerica you are absolutely right... there is a science to interrogation. And actually you would be surprised how well the good cop role works with most people. When it comes to terrorism and saving lives I think think the CIA knows what they are doing.......They are protecting US. 'nuff said.
As for the Rock as Cap. No thanks, he is too quirky. Good actor, but not as Cap. I read that Leo Dicaprio and Matthew Mconahey were both interested. Anybody hear about them? Both good choices.
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| Posted: 22 Nov 2009 03:24 |
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I don't think Leo is really going to play Cap. Another great actor, but too snarky to be a leader. McConohey is another good actor in his own right, but seems to be somewhat type-cast as a party-dude. I also doubt he'd be able to lose his Texan accent.
As for the good cop, it works when there it a bad cop that the subject fears. The good cop will claim that if he gets something he can keep the other one at bay, etc.
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| Posted: 21 Dec 2009 03:08 |
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Just read that Cap is to be filmed in the UK. This seems to further the speculation that the Invaders (or some form of them) will appear in this film. Considering that they said the film will "set up the Avengers in a big way," I suspect he will assemble a team of Invaders for something. I would hope the Invaders will only be Cap, Union Jack, Bucky and the Human Torch.
Just going crazy here, a Baron Blood story would be awesome!
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| Posted: 21 Dec 2009 10:49 |
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Ideally, the Cap film should be done primarily during daylight hours, and should look bright, like the old Superman movies. That kind of look would suit a Cap film better than the dark and creepy superhero film look of today's films. To many, Captain America is to Marvel what Superman is to DC, and Cap films should mirror that.
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| Posted: 21 Dec 2009 21:17 |
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Cap certainly shouldn't be dark, except in areas where the darkness comes from the Nazi's, but I don't think day or night set pieces really make a difference.
I think what would work best is to have that Darkness of the Nazi Steampunk Warmachine lurching to life, and the radiance of Cap coming to do battle with it. how that's shot and how it looks can go any number of ways, but I think it's important to have Cap be the light in the Darkness, and not light within the light.
The world of WWII was a dark place, and Cap being the ideal of America should be the beacon of Freedom in that world that kept us from the facism that swept the world at that time.
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| Posted: 22 Dec 2009 04:36 |
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Matches, I couldn't agree with you more. Well put! I like to think of Cap as the beacon of hope, the underdog rising against all odds to take on a formidable foe and then crushing it.
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| Posted: 22 Dec 2009 16:45 |
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Exactly, they need to keep his costume the lighter airforce blue, instead of going in for a dark navey blue or black. I know that goes against most modern convention for Heroes, but I think that's the point. Cap isn't a modern hero, He's old school, the world may be dark and decaying (and that dichatomy should be appearant when they awaken him) But Cap is the Ideal of America, and that's what makes him compelling.
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| Posted: 22 Dec 2009 17:23 |
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If they go with the bright colors they need to be careful not to turn it into something like the Batman & Robin movie from 1997. That was ridiculous! I think they could use the darker costume and still portray Cap as a bright beacon of hope. Either way tho, the brighter costume would be cool too if done correctly.
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| Posted: 22 Dec 2009 20:11 |
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I would have to look real, without a doubt, but I don't think the problem wiht Batman and Robin was the costumes.
I think in that film you have what is the central concern with any super hero franchise. When you have multiple interpretations of characters over the years, certain incarnations become peoples favorites, so in that Film there was an effort to go to the campy Batman of the 60's (the book was pretty campy back then too)rather than the more recent dark batman that had been successful for the franchise at the time.
Cap has been relativly consistant throughout his run, so I don't think that's as big a problem for him, but there is enough that if someone wanted to make Cap a Dark Hero (remember Cap has twice lost faith in the government and took on the identities of Nomad and the Captain respectivly) they could, likewise if they wanted to make him more of a whiz bang comix hero, there is precident for that as well.
I think given that he has to integrate into the Iron Man Hulk and Thor established universe of the Avengers Movie, I think they'll be o.k. But I'm sure that's what people thought when They heard rumors about Batman and Robin making an homage to the 60's era Batman.
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| Posted: 23 Dec 2009 12:05 |
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With all the suggestions about costume and colors, I think it would be fairly simple and obvious, stick to the true shades of the colors of our U.S. flag. After all he IS Captain America. And pleas enough with the Ultimates Cap costume ideas. Leave his appearance as Originally done by Simon & Kirby. Time has proven that if it ain't broken, don't screw with it!
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| Posted: 24 Dec 2009 04:22 |
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I agree--leave the costume the original way. The Ultimates looks like when someone tries to tweak something that is already a classic--it looks garish. I think the blue should be the American flag blue, too.
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| Posted: 24 Dec 2009 04:29 |
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Kids can't wait for Christmas, I am fed up waiting on this movie...but I can take forever as long as it's not like the film from 19 years ago which will remain unnamed.
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| Posted: 24 Dec 2009 16:08 |
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Its amazing how far superhero films have come. They have really learned how to create a character without making it cheesy (spider-man, Iron Man, Wolverine). I went kind of retro the other day and watched the old Daredevil movie with Ben Affleck..... That was terrible. I remember liking that movie when it originally came out. I think they have learned a lot about making a good superhero movie that draws people and I really hope they continue the trend with the Cap movie.
I can't wait for the Cap movie, I find myself checking the internet almost daily to see if they have cast anybody yet, even tho I know they won't announce it til after the new year.
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