| Posted: 19 Jul 2009 22:33 |
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I Don't See How They Could Make 3 Spider-Man Movies, 2 Iron Man Movies, 4 X-Men Movies, and 2 Incredible Hulk Movies, Without Making a Captain America Movie.
The main topic question:
Will First Avenger: Captain America be a success? Like Spider-Man, or Iron-Man?
The movie comes out in 2 years, no information about who is playing who has been released.
Will it be those Marvel movies that make a lot?
Or will it be a Punisher: War Zone movie?
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| Posted: 20 Jul 2009 04:15 |
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It's impossible to tell at this point.
Good things going for cap:
1) He's an acrobatic hero, meaning there will likely be a lot of visually stunning cgi fight scenes with him back flipping off of A tank and punching Master Man in the face.
2) He is a relativly well known hero, no spiderman, or Batman but well known enough that people have heard of him and know a little of his back story. (he's also been getting lots of high profile media coverage of late).
3) He gets to fight Nazis. Let's face it when it comes to villains you can't do better than Nazis. They were evil, technologically advanced, would be world beaters, who were really snappy dressers. They were pretty much real world supervillains, so putting them agaisnt Cap is a pretty solid win win.
Bad Things going against Cap:
1) He's got a complicated back story that needs to fit into the greater universe being created by the Hulk, Ironman and Thor Movies. That could be a plus in the long run, but it makes it a much harder film to write than just a strait Cap film independent of the rest of the Movie Marvel Universe.
2) He's got wings on his head. Translating Super Hero costumes to the big screen is probably the hardest part of making a film. This is the kind of thing that can really ruin a fim, and having a guy in a red white and blue outfit with wings sticking off the side of his head could look silly. The counter line is they go too realisitic and put hin in a mask and an army uniform painted blue (sort of like they have in the books lately) that could wind up being worse, since you start to ask why give him a costume anyway, and not just have Captain Rogers leading his men into battle. They had a similar problem with the Dolph Lundgren Punisher film, and simply opted for no uniform, which angered the fans, and caused them to lose out on T-Shirt Tie ins.
3) He is the symbol of democracy and freedom, set in a jim crowe era, 1940's america. If they deal with the juxtiposition of the ideals of America and the actuality of America at the time, and the film could get really preachy. If they ignore that juxtiposition it could become problem as it comes of as dishonest.
We'll know more once they start shooting it, and we start getting leaked bits and pieces of the film. But for now, it's just too early to tell.
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| Posted: 20 Jul 2009 05:04 Last Edited By: VictoryInDefiance |
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What sucks is that we may not end up with a decent film at all. Loyal fans would want it to be true to the character and the era it will be set in. The movie studios will want to make as much money as possible so they'll want to water it down with the artificial sweetener known as political correctness so as to not "step on anybody's toes" by being too preachy or idealistic. What's sad is that this nation has imploded in on itself and we no longer have the freedom to be patriotic or endorse moral values without being blacklisted or our opinions called "outdated". Hopefully they'll be true to the era and we'll get a good representation of Cap and of WWII. Personally I don't see how it's gonna be such a problem incorporating Cap into the current movie Marvel universe. It was the same in the 60's when they brought a character from the 40's into a "modern" era that was new to him and he felt out of place and had to adjust to living in a totally different generation.
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| Posted: 20 Jul 2009 12:31 |
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I liked the way in which he was introduced in the Ultimates. A man of strict moral code in a laissez faire world. I did enjoy the way in which, incensed by Hank Pym's assault on Janet, he challenged Giant Man and flattened him.
I even liked the Ultimates uniform which was a Captain America style vest with fatigue trousers.
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| Posted: 20 Jul 2009 18:43 |
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Well, there's the problem...
Cap dropped off the stores in the 50's, know one would by them anymore...
Then Stan Lee came in WITH and alternate version Captain America...
Then some others writers came up with Cap with another version.
THEN the Ultimates came in with a HUGE difference.
I've seen Cap comics, where's he's in 'Nam. Other stories say he's been forzen for for what 60 years?
There are so many versions of When:
1)How long he was frozen
2)Whether or not he served in Wars during the 1950's-Present
3)WWII, Ultimates, or normal Cap costumes
I mean Captain America came out in '91, we thought it was a great movie. But we were wrong.
Now it's so terrible, Marvel hides the shame of not having ANY information about it. They don't even sell that movie in AMERICA!!! Only in Europe.
They better make it good.
I like this version of CAp:
And this one (Favorite):
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| Posted: 21 Jul 2009 21:13 |
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I've been asking everyone to point out all the problems of a Cap movie, hopefully they'll work around them to make a great movie.
One thing I see going, is that Marvel is establishing a superhero universe in the movie theaters, 3 or 4 Spider man movies, 2 Iron man, Hulk movies and a Thor movie, ...plus Green Lantern in winter 2010, so, out pops a Cap movie, to show even humans can be superpowerful or human among superhumans theme. Might work. For me it's oversaturation, might turn the general audience off superhero movies.
Got to have feathers on that helmet. Cap doesn't run around with a cape, so that visual effect of movement and dynamic is shown through those feathers, wavy gloves and pirate boots. Done right it'll work on the screen.
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2009 08:54 |
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I think they're going to use many costumes/uniforms throughout the movie, let's face it, some guy running around on a battlefield wearing super bright colors ( even the ones we all love  ) looks good in a comic book but not in real life or a war movie...
My guess is they'll start with a modified uniform and then move on to something that looks a bit more like a superhero costume in modern times...
Still I hope they'll stay true to the original cap costume with the wings etc...
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2009 21:24 |
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You don't really need the illusion of movement when he's you know, actually moving.
I'd like to see the wings stay, I just hope they don't look silly.
Actually, I think the uniform can look good. Remember, Cap's not a slogger, he's special forces, so it's not like he's going to have the whole 50 lbs pack on his back.
He get's air dropped in, fights his way out, and grabs a line on a low flying plane to get out.
The Uniform is fine, probably want to make it navy blue instead of roal blue (you know like the actual flag) but aside from that, if you do the flexible synthetic chainmail armour, it should be fine (not the scales though I think that is just awfull in modern interpretations).
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2009 23:38 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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Quote:
he Uniform is fine, probably want to make it navy blue instead of roal blue
Exactly, like this one:
It's better, (Even without wings) and you can picture in an live-action film:
_________________________________________________
There's a reason why they change costumes...
Look at Wolverines original suit, compare it with the movie's version. Imagine Jackson in a silly yellow uniform.
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| Posted: 23 Jul 2009 21:01 |
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It's an cool uniform, I have to say, I am not liking the mask or helmet.
The boots should be red, as should the gloves. A nice deep blood red.
Also, I think the gear should be minimal(which is why I don't really like the helmet).
Cap is speed, agility, and acrobatics. Anything that slows that down is counter intuitive for the character.
Skip the helmet, skip the utilitiy belts. A side arm, and shield should be plenty for a guy doing what cap does.
Remember even in leading the charge, his purpose is less to kill the Nazi's but to inspire the troops, like a civil war general riding in the lead of his batallion into battle.
His costume serves a purpose even in battle to be seen, so again you don't want it too down played.
I like the general feel of that design, I just think the helmet specicly hurts the design. It serves a logical purpose, of course, but he's got the shield to protect against shrapnle, so I think they can do the cowl o.k.
I believe the director on this did the Rocketeer, and that's what I thought of when I saw the uniform above, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's not a model they use.
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| Posted: 23 Jul 2009 22:34 |
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Well said, Matches. I agree on the helmet and he kinda reminds me of Hawkman for some reason in that mask. I think super heroes should mostly look the part. Why not just have a guy up there in regular fatigues with an "A" stenciled onto his helmet? Why not dress Spider-Man up in blue jeans and a red shirt with a red ski mask and leave it at that? Personally I like super heroes BECAUSE they're far-fetched and outlandish and can do things normal people can't. Making their appearance in films more "realistic" has usually just cheapened things for hardcore fans and the "casual" movie-goers that the studios are trying to lure in could care less in the first place so nobody really wins.
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| Posted: 23 Jul 2009 23:45 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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Quote:
Also, I think the gear should be minimal(which is why I don't really like the helmet).
Your saying...that Cap shouldn't have WWII gear? He should be caring that kinda gear! What is he going to do? Come up to 67 Nazis with a only a is shield?
I love the uniform. He's supposed to be in that gear.
I like that version.
I don't like Stan Lee's version that much.
Brubaker's WWII version, is okay.
I like the fact that he actually carried a Tommy gun, or a rifle.
I like that version, is tells you that his suit was different in WWII, it gives it taste, you can imagine that suit in reality.
He should have gear.
It gives you a WWII personality, instead of wearing what he wore in WWII.
*The mask is awesome*
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2009 16:02 |
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Well, like I said, Cap isn't a charge enemy lines kind of guy, they have him doing that in some comics, mostly so they can have him giving inspiring speeches to the other soldiers.
Cap isn't a guy you would put to slog across europe fighting for every inch.
He's a drop in, drop out, kill a bunch of nazis covert military intelegence guy.
To be honest, one thing I do like in modern interpretations is that they show cap and the other invaders undercover in civies much more than they show them in uniform.
The uniform's purpose is to intimidate or inspire, and cap isn't spending days and weeks in the trenches. He might wind up in a trench on ocasion, but he's not grunt.
So, no, he shouldn't have WWII gear. You can go with some of that design, but Cap isn't a heavy gear kind of soldier. That's not what he does.
If you put a pack on the guy you defeat most of his advantage, which is always, close quarters, hand to hand combat.
You don't need to be a Super Soldier to use a tommy gun, you may use one as a Super Soldier, but that's not an efficient use of your abilities.
Cap does counter espionage work, he may show up on a battle field, when things get hairy, but in general that's not his function.
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2009 17:35 |
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I guess you're right, can at least carry a pistol? (AT LEAST?)
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2009 19:01 |
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Quote:
undercover in civies
Are you military, Matches?
Civies is what we called civilian clothes in the Marines. Of course you knew that though considering you used the term.
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2009 22:57 |
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I bet he (or she?) met cities.
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| Posted: 25 Jul 2009 02:39 |
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An army Cap uniform, dull or mute the red and white color, navy/dark blue, for that 'storming the beach' scene, like the Captain America Reborn look.
The classic Marvel Cap uniform for the trips back home in America, buy bonds, support the troops rallies, parades or even for troop morale. Can also be used for fighting crimes, or Nazi spies in America like in his comics.
They could do a scene with the triangular shield and have it get busted and replaced with the round shield.
Better, end the movie with the classic Marvel Cap suit in glorious red, blue and white colors, really sends the movie off in one big patriotic scene. That can work and can look great.
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| Posted: 25 Jul 2009 03:14 |
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Quote:
They could do a scene with the triangular shield and have it get busted and replaced with the round shield.
I know, right?
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| Posted: 25 Jul 2009 11:09 |
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Nothing personal Pole805, but the pictures you posted of Cap, his traditional uniform is GREAT. The other two really stink, but then I've hated the Ultimates Cap military look since it first came out. It's just not Captain America to me.
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| Posted: 25 Jul 2009 15:33 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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I hate the Ultimates so much, but I think the WWII version of Cap is AWESOME.
Oh Well...
The first picture was comic that came out a few months ago, he's serving in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or something like that.
I'm guessing it was by Cassady, he has great realistic versions of Cap.
That picture should be our main suit traget here...anyone ELSE agree?
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| Posted: 25 Jul 2009 19:12 |
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I think that pic is from "The Chosen" but I'm not sure. Haven't read that series yet.
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2009 17:21 |
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See I hate the dragon Scales. it should be synthetic mesh. Anything plate is going to slow him down too much.
This is a guy who dodges bullets, better to have that speed on his side, then wear the excess armour.
I remember a fantasy artist suggesting something similar about the steel bikinis female warriors wear, essentailly stating that a female warriors advantages are goign to be in speed agility and flexibility, to wear anything more than the most essential armour would just be a drag on them and limit their ability to fight.
The same is the case with Cap.
He needs to be light and fast, Sure he's very strong and can do the slog no problem, but if he's in the fight, he needs to be ready and fast, and can't spend time fussing with the extra weight.
Nothing but the essentials, a uniform that moves with him, a side arm, and the shield. Anything more and you're just weighing him down. Of course in the film such acrobatics will be CGI so they can put him in an unmovable batman armour if they want, and still have him flexible in a fight. But I think it's better if they focus on how these images would move.
This is really the advantage of having a costume designer as opposed to an artist working on the costume. The costume designer is used to thinking about how a person will move in their costume, where as the artists, are mostly just thinking about what would look cool and what would be handy in a fight.
So they can load the guy down with utility belts and the like, because on the page it looks good and they want Cap to have a pocket he can reach into later, or show that he's got the canteen there for some reason.
By contrast the designer is thinking well if there's a canteen there, we're not going to be able to do the spinning back kick believably in scene three.
That's all I'm saying.
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2009 19:00 |
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Just thought I'd put this here rather than make a whole new Captain America Movie Topic:
http://www.hollywood.com/news/Marvel_Delivers_Captain_America_mov ...
Possibility of the Invaders making an appearance in the Captain America Movie?
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2009 23:22 |
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I don't know what to think about the Invaders in the movie. Could be cool, or could it be too many heroes in one film that supposed to introduce Cap to the world before the Avengers movie. Too many characters might take away from Cap's development as a character, but then again.
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| Posted: 28 Jul 2009 01:32 |
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I agree with Tim. I think they should mainly concentrate on Cap and Bucky and of course the Red Skull and maybe one other villain (Master Man?). I've wanted to see an Invaders movie for some time now. Maybe they could get a spin-off film down the line somewhere after the whole Avengers thing happens.
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| Posted: 28 Jul 2009 04:41 |
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Nobody upset that there's no feathers on that cowl? Maybe it's a prelimilary design. I guess someone reshaped the stripes to avoid that 'bucket' look. Brown leather chin straps, stars on his upper arms, no wavy gloves, I can live with, but it's the feathers that I must have on Cap's costume.
Feign said it in the interview, it's all about Steve Rogers. I don't mind if Namor or Jim Hammond pop up, like that 70th anniversary book with Rogers walking the street and the Human Torch was in the background, little things like that makes it worth going back to see the movie again. like trying to see the Millennium Falcon in the Revenge of the Sythe, Cap's shield in Iron man or Sam Jackson's cameo at the end of the movie.
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| Posted: 28 Jul 2009 11:39 |
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I'm in agreement with VictoryInDefiance about a second villain. Maybe the Red Skull and then Baron Zemo who in the comics is the one who sends Cap and Bucky on their fateful life-changing journies. Cap to reawaken decades later, and Bucky to become a master assassin for the Communist for the next several decades while in and out of cryogenic sleep.
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| Posted: 28 Jul 2009 16:30 |
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Personally, I would rather see the Skull as a shadow than a character. The manipulator pulling the strings, spoken about in hushed whispers, but not shown.
The Villains should be the Nazis, that's it, that's all you need. You can have supporting character, Baron VonBlitzschlag, or Arnim Zola (as a dwarf still) as the Skull's henchmen, Master Man or Warrior Woman as thier weapons against Cap. But the skull shouldn't be out front. Just a shadow of fear and doubt manpiulating his network of spies and fifth columnists against Cap.
Sort of like in the first Nolan Batman, the villain isn't really front and center, but is present throughout the story.
You can have Zemo, or anyone else, but the line of command should be clear. I think the crowded universe of the Marvels could be used to a real advantage here. Showing Cap as the best humanity has to offer, but still a human facing Gods and Monsters.
Having such a world put's Cap into perspective and makes his achievements all the greater. If cap is the first and only Hero he's great, but his greatness hides his humanity. If Cap is the weakest physically of the Heroes and villains, it makes his heroism, and his ability to hold his own, all the more dramatic and important.
It shows why Cap is a necessary componant to the Avengers.
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| Posted: 28 Jul 2009 16:41 |
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VERY well said about Cap, Matches. I also think that it would have GREAT dramatic effect to use your idea of keeping the Skull in the shadows. That way they could bring him into modern times for a second Cap movie down the line and it would have a bigger dynamic impact.
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| Posted: 28 Jul 2009 17:40 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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Nazis AND there allies. 'cause you know Normandy.
I don't think the invaders should be in it, if they want to, when it comes out on DVD Disc 2 will have the "Ivaders" version.
Victory in Defiance, about a second movie of Cap...
NOW we're going off subject here, we don't even know if the movie is going to be a success.
That's the whole point. Is it going to be hit movie, where critics praise it? Or a terrible peice attemp to raise another hero on the big screen, like Punisher: War Zone.
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