| Posted: 21 Jun 2009 19:27 |
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I also have been reading Cap since the 60's. I have seen Cap, and the Avengers, go through some bad writings. As mentioned earlier, those late 1990 issues got so bad that I even dropped the Avengers for a while ( I did got back and get all the issues I missed).
Some have mentioned that Cap was aimless, directionless, poorly written etc at times. Yep, it all true, but my theory, as mentioned before is that Marvel, and some of the writers, being hard left did not know hoe to treat a pro-American icon. He is a symbol of the best of America, not of just Soldier, or a peace movement, or non-violence, or non-interference but of a fighter who gets involved when the police or military cannot handle the situation. Years ago I wrote in and suggested that Cap should be work for (the most part) SHIELD. Who better to direct him to the terror hot-spot of the moment? But in most cases not all, but most, he was written poorly by writers, in my opinion, that did not like that he was a flag waving patriot for our Country.
Rebot him? not needed Again point him in the right direction, i.e. at this moment its fighting terror! A half decent writer could produce above average to great stories on his missions in America and around the world, fighting Hydra, AIM and the like.
But alas the best we could do, AND THEY ARE GREAT STORIES! is kill him off and deal with all those around him. The stories are excellent but for me, it’s what happens now. The stories before his death were good let’s see them get to be excellent, and this great character be treated and used as he should.
Off my soap box
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| Posted: 22 Jun 2009 06:39 |
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 Dude; I say stay on that soap box, and let's all race for the same goal (soap box derby, anyone?)I actually felt Brubaker's first 22 issues were some of the strongest stories written in recent times (I was a fan of the Waid/Garney run @ the end of the first series plus the Bloodstone story line with the introduction of Crossbones by Dwyer.) Unlike the Bugs Bunny episode where Daffy Duck needed to blow himself up to impress the crowd, killing Captain America did not need to be an option. It almost felt like a cheap publicity stunt.
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| Posted: 22 Jun 2009 15:46 |
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I've been thinking about the death and a possible outcome.
It was suggested that a more modern cap may come out of this (due to memory lapses caused by being dead, similar to what he exeperienced when he first came out of the cold).
However, as I've pointed out in the past, Cap was already pretty modern having been unfrozen for fourty years (60's to the 00's) and only frozen for twenty years (40's to the 60's).
What if Cap does come back with memory holes, but they aren't of his past, or more specificly aren't of his WWII days but of his recent past.
Imagine Cap coming back with no memory since the last time he died, his entire fourty years of growth and experience whiped clean. His last memory is Bucky on the Buzz Bomb and Roosevelt in the White House. He awakens, and Bucky is the new Cap, and Obama is President.
Cell Phones are the stuff of buck rogers, and the internet is just incomprehensible.
What if the steve we get back is 1940's steve, a real man out of time again, struggleing to remake friendships, and earn the trust of others.
What if Cap comes back, and is taken from the others by Osborn, who convinces him of the dire state of the current U.S. fifth columnists and traitors around every corner, just like Cap fought in the 40's.
I think one of the biggest things with Cap and not knowing what to do with him was that he was not a super power guy, so it's not like you can just send him against the super freak of the week. He's not a street crime fighter, so it's not like he's going to take down the King Pin, and since he's not officially a Government agent in the 9 to 5 sense like Fury, he really doesn't get into the super spy business much either.
But you bring back Cap, as this man out of time, trying to figure out who he can trust and who he cannot.
You can have Cap, who probably in the war often thought of himself as "one more soldier in the fight", even likely not seeing himself as more crucial to the effort then the real super top dogs like Namor and Torch, and now people tell him they were friends for fourty years, that they fought Space Gods together, and now he has to figure out if that is true or if that is false. Osborn could tell Cap in this situation, that he and the Goblin were allies for years fighting against the Nazi Spider after the war, and how would Cap know?
By the way, did anyone get a little shocked at the reprint story in 601 where they actually show the Skull's face while he's practicing archery? Weird huh?
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| Posted: 23 Jun 2009 20:14 |
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Wow I've been gone a few days and there is so much to read here..... I love it! It's great that this message board has been so active lately.
As for Cap coming back, I just want to point out the video trailer that Marvel has out for Reborn right now.
It seems Sharon Carter will have a big part of Steves return.
Sharon:
"Now I've discovered the truth, and now.... I know how to bring him back"
My short term memory is a little shady right now but didn't Skull just bring back the Cap of the 1950's recently? If they can bring him back with what ever science they are using, it might work on Steve as well?
I need to go re-read the last couple of issues and see if they are any clues there.
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| Posted: 23 Jun 2009 20:27 |
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Well, it seems to be essentially the same way that they're bringing them back. I.E. they weren't ever really dead, just in suspended animation while their bodies healed.
Of course since there isn't any real info released there could be more to it than that.
Hmm...I wonder...might that gun Sharon used not been a Super soldier serum repressor but a tachion disruptor that essentially, marked steves body with a tachion signature that allowed the Skull, using Doom's Time machine to pull a pre SSS Steve Rogers body out of the time stream and send the real steve off to limbo. So the old body dies and the Steve is forever tramped in a timeless spacelss void?
July 1st can't come fast enough!
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| Posted: 25 Jun 2009 18:39 |
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........Less then a week away guys!!! 
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| Posted: 25 Jun 2009 19:20 |
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"So the old body dies and the Steve is forever tramped in a timeless spacelss void?"
That is the silliest thing I have ever heard.
__________________"--When the mob and the Press and the whole WORLD tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world 'No you move'."
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| Posted: 25 Jun 2009 23:27 |
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Hey!
Shieldbearer, just wanted to say that I appreciate what you have been saying.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm a long time Cap fan & collector. But I'm also a fan of good stories. I don't think they've nearly exploited all the interesting possiblities with Bucky as Cap.
Steve Rogers will always be THE Captain America. But he's fought the good fight for a long time. (He's a WW2 vet!). Let the guy Rest In Peace - he's earned it!
And, yeah, a world where no one dies isn't very interesting. It's almost Gillbert & Sullivanish - there's always a "magic potion" or "some amazing coincidence" that works just at the right time to bring someone back.
Plus with Captain America, there's tons of interesting possibilities. Unlike Superman - you kill him off, there's no more Superman. But Cap, you can put all kinds of people into the suit & see what happens, for better or worse. What if a guy like The Watchmen's Comedian was Cap??? What about someone really rightious (litterally)?? What about a really in-shape President who takes the Serum & is a crime fighter at nigt??....okay too far, but you see where this is going.
Oh, and here's how I think he comes back: put Steve Rogers' memories (ala Arnim Zola/Ameridroid type thing) in the body of the 50s Cap. Hey, half the LMDs think they're the real thing anyway. This is how the 50s Cap redeems himself. After all these years NO writer has ever give the 50s Cap a name other than...Steve Rogers... 2 Caps become 1.
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2009 04:04 |
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Hey guys,
I still think the Cosmic Cube will be involved in all of this. Any guesses as to why? I picked up installment 12 of 12 of Avengers / Invaders and there are some possible clues in it that pertain to July 1st. Some vague references but, compelling. Anybody else feel this?
Captain Rogers
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2009 16:11 |
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Wonky Time Machines and Cosmic Cubes, they just make things easier.
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2009 18:49 |
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You know, now that I think about it, there are few things more torturous than putting your mind in someone else's body (Red Skull sure knows all about that). They may do something like that with Cap, but I am sure they would upset a ton of fanboys, but knowing Marvel who knows.
Steve could see himself as some kind of monster, or (if you read X-men also) end up like the telepath/telekinetic Psylock and not even care that he has a new body. Personally, I don't think Sharon or Steve would be so shallow as to end the life of one man so that another may live on...selfishly so.
I really dont believe this to be the way it will pan out though, but interesting idea.
__________________"--When the mob and the Press and the whole WORLD tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world 'No you move'."
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2009 15:29 |
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Here's my question:
You see, I get my comics by mail...will I get Reborn by mail? (All my comic book stores in my area are closed )
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| Posted: 29 Jun 2009 00:02 |
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Pole805,
You will not get Reborn by subscription, it is a limited series. Only comic shops will be able to get "Reborn" in.
Another option is ebay. There are a ton of 1st print pre-order copies for sale right now for a cheap price. Better buy a first print now before it comes out & the price goes up.
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| Posted: 29 Jun 2009 17:55 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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Oh thanks! I better go to a comic book store FAST!
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| Posted: 30 Jun 2009 05:36 |
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As long as you get there this wednesday (2 days).
It will be sold out for sure on that day for most places.
If you miss it, they are on ebay and almost certain they will do a 2nd printing too.
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| Posted: 30 Jun 2009 20:28 |
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The prelude to Reborn is now available to read on Marvel.com...nice liitle set up story with Sin.
At any rate it gets me just a little more excited for the release of Reborn tomorrow. Not sure how many of the covers I will purchase...I will have to see how much more the variants will cost I guess.
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2009 18:54 |
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The time has come!!!!!!
I'm going to the comic shop right now, WOOHOO!!
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2009 20:02 |
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I tried to pick up mine during my lunch break at work...UPS has not made the delivery yet...Great day for the shipment to be late. I guess I will stop by on the way home.
I think the Cap poster book is out today as well...anyone seen that as well yet???
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2009 22:14 |
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Looked for the poster book. Didnt see it!!
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2009 22:18 |
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I was hoping it was at books a million cause my wife works near that store. No luck.
So I ordered mine just now. Cost me more for shipping than the book cost. Wish a comic book store was open in my town so I didn't have to drive so far.
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2009 22:36 |
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Well, it's been a few years for old Cap writer, but now I am back thanks to Reborn #1. More at [url=www.o-dogg.blogspot.com]The O-Dogg Blog[/url]
Wow. I am still reeling from the sit-in-my-car-and-read-a-comic-book-during-lunchtime exercise I just finished. Normally, I wait till I get home at night, or even a few days before I read new comics. Not today. Reborn #1 waits for no man, the O-dogg included.
Let's just say the last two-plus years of writer Ed Brubaker's boring, drawn-out conspiracy theory storylines on the flagship 'Captain America' title have finally paid off. I give credit to the story jumping off the pages of Reborn #1 to artist Brian Hitch, who draws the most beautiful, photo-realistic art you will ever find in a comic book.
I could go on and on, but I'll summarize my enthusiasm for Reborn #1 like this: the appeal of Captain America has always been that he is a man out of time. He's a WWII legend that gets frozen in time, frozen in ice, for decades, and awakens in modern times to a new world he doesn't understand and a cynical world that doesn't understand him and his 1940s values. The more recent incarnations of Captain America have him waking up around the year 2000 - after almost 60 years of inanimation. So, in the current storyline, Brubaker hatches a plot twist that is the literal inverse, the absolute mirror image of the classic man-out-of-time plot device. If you understand what that means, sorry to spoil it for you - if you don't, then do not Google the word "reciprocal."
Reborn is frakkin' brilliant and it finally has me intellectually aroused and ready to embrace anything that brings Cap back from the dead. I am so ready for a re-birth and life after two years of yearning. 'Nuff said.
__________________I want a giant penny and a lifesize T-Rex statue in my high tech basement.
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2009 23:06 |
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Reborn: Got it....Read it....Love it!!!
Can't wait for issue #2 
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2009 23:33 |
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Comics are a medium like all others: It's all about the $$$$$$ Of course they are bringing Steve Rogers back. Please. Like this is a shock to some people. VERY rare do people stay buried in the comics world. Heck, until Winter Soldier, Bucky was untouchable and was the one that would stay dead.
Personally, it's too early to brink Rogers back. That's just me, then again, as mentioned, it's all about the $$$$. I like Bucky as Cap, I like the costume, the dilemma of trying to pay homage to his friend and keep the Cap name dignified. If your a wise writer, you can do alot with that right there.
Unfortunatley, they are going the other route with the "man out of time, been there done that" story again. Oh well, what can you do. Everyone is obsessed with bringing back Steve so everyone gets thier wish.
Don't get me wrong, Steve is the sh*^, but Bucky is just fine and offers alot as a character.
That's just me, I'm not psyched about the Reborn storyline, so I'll pass for now. I'll eventually read it, but I'm in no hurry. I think Brubaker and Marvel are listening to the fans and not doing the right thing in keeping Steve away----for now and giving Bucky more of a chance. Again, what do I know, I'm only a fan on a Captain America website.
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| Posted: 02 Jul 2009 01:01 |
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Reborn is EPIC!!!
Check out my Topic on Reborn!
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| Posted: 04 Jul 2009 05:44 |
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Shieldslinger, consider yourself my new hero.
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| Posted: 04 Jul 2009 10:12 |
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Saw this on you tube.....
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