| Posted: 24 Apr 2009 18:54 |
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Gee, I kind of like the aliens story better.  
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| Posted: 25 Apr 2009 06:32 |
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and a weak, skinny kid becoming a God (but still human)
I think you're agreeing with me about Cap NOT being an everyman, right?
Vincent:
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I don't think people on this site were actually serious about Rogan as Captain America.
I didn't say people were serious, I said it 'seemed' like a lot of people 'sounded' like they believed it and more than that, that Rogan (or Rogen) would be a good CAP choice. Both of which are incorrect, in my opinion of course. But I got into that one already.
And this one:
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About Stallone and Swazenneggar, they had presence, a larger-than-life feel, and they were famous, but after awhile the honeymoon's over, 15 minutes are up
I think you contradicted yourself here a bit. You wrote that Arnold and Stallone were famous, and that is why they're movies did well. Well, how do you think they got so famous? Because they were everymen? Nope. Maybe a tiny bit for Stallone with the first Rocky, but pretty sure Arnold would never be mistaken for an everyman, but I'm sure RAMBO wasn't meant to be an everyman, do you?
And as for there '15' minutes. You could not have used a worse discription for these two actors. Try more like 15 years, and that is still a little too shy, especially for Stallone, who, whether you agree or not has been a hollywood powerhouse since 1976.
And just because you didn't like Arnold in Batman and Robin, he was not what killed the movie, or at least shouldn't be the only one blamed for the outcome of that movie.
Also, you say Arnold almost ruined comic movies, well not for very long as stated by you since Batman and Robin came out in 1997 and Blade (which brought comic movies back, right?) came out in 1998. A whole wopping year later.
I could go on but needless to say, I think you helped prove my point more than yours.
Semper Fi,
WH
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| Posted: 26 Apr 2009 05:34 |
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Some 15 minutes can go on for decades. Ever seen or heard of this movie Crossing over (I think thats the name), it starred Harrison Ford. Ford, man, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Airforce one, Patriot games, ...Hollywood Homicide, A submarine movie, that last Indy movie,... I don't think I contradicted myself, I was fully well aware of Stallone and Swarzeneggers fame and success. It's that it doesn't last. 6th day, End of times, good movies with Ahnold, but not many people went to see them. That last Rocky movie got good critic reviews, didn't make much box office profit.
Years ago, Brook Shields was all over the news, Blue Lagoon, I paid to see her next movie, Endless Love, even Tom Cruise was in it, an AAAWWWFFFUULLL movie. Then there was Bo Derek in Tarzan the Ape man, what a waste of time and money. Swarzenegger, Preditor, Red heat, so so movie. That Batman movie he was in, man, I wish I got my money back for that crap. About superhero movies, if people don't invest money in movies, then they don't get made. Through the 90s, Bridgette Nelson tried to get a She-Hulk movie made. She even got Bil Bixby to make a cameo, and designed some costumes and some pictures were made. No one gave her money and she ended up doing a reality show with that Flavor Flav guy.
Blade got a small production fund, some 30 million and made a good profit somewhere 50 mill. Fox okayed the Xmen, spent somewhere in the 70 mill (Very hesitant and unsure of it's success), and that went on to make 150, ...it showed Hollywood CB movies can be a profit and successful without Batman or Superman. About Supe, there was controversy about how much WB paid to have Brando appear in that movie, but without his name, investors wouldn't put money in the Supe movie in the 70s and wouldn't have been made. Lucas never thought Star Wars would make so much money, thought he'll get a table at a Star Trek con (That last ST movie just killed the Next generation franchise). It the same thing nowadays for movies. Studios don't want to invest millions and get very little in return, Battlefield Earth, big story with the writer, John Travolta is (at that time) a big star. That studio later recouped it's loss with the Perfect storm. Eventually Dvd sales is helping the market.
Looking at the market nowadays, reading news, seeing how these stars pop up and then dissappear, Gooden Jr, Affleck, now its Kidman, LaBeauf, that girl from King Kong, ... what I noticed is that actors show up, become famous through a series of movies, then drop out for awhile, come back with some essemble movies (with a bunch of people), and hope their famous enough to keep getting work. Anyone remember Prince Jr, ...Beal, Bacon?
With Watchmen finishing around 120 mill, Spirit barely making a blip, Punisher was so bad, everyone wants to forget it, and I'm not hearing good news with the upcoming Wolvie movie (I want Wolvie to be a success, could lead to Xmen first class), ...I'm noticing a trend that CB movies are dropping from moviegoers must-see list. When this happens, slow down, give us some time to miss the product. I don't want the Cap movie to come out when everyone's hating or bored of CB movies. I don't want a forgetable actor playing the part, and I'm hoping for a favorable review like 60 to 70% critics liking the movie (I peruse the Rotten Tomatoes site).
About Superman4, when that bombed, Spiderman movie didn't get the money to be made, that studio which funded S4, went under. As did Cameron's company that made Terminator2.
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| Posted: 26 Apr 2009 20:47 |
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Well, you know with watchmen you have to take into account the fan backlash, as well as a desire by reviewers to dislike the film before seeing it.
Virtually every negative review I heard started out with the statement "When I heard Zack Snyder was using the comic book as a story board I began to worry." Which tells me that there was very little that was going to make this film get good reviews. Even still it did decently, as well as Fantastic Four, which was good enough for a sequel, which is unfortunatly not something that viable for Watchmen (which begs the question if there was no francise opporutnity why they bothered to make it in the first place).
The Spirit I think too is a seperate catagory since, it isn't a regularly recognized title, outside of it's fan base. People know who batman, captain america, etc are even if they've never picked up the comic, I don't think the Spirit had that level of name recognition, so most people probably thought they were watching Sin City II and were gravly disapointed.
The Punisher was bad, but I don't think anyone was banking on it. I got the feeling it was more or less a small picture (tight f.x budget) intdended to make it's money back but never to be a block buster.
You still have the success of Ironman, and Batman in recent memory, and the Hulk didn't do too poorly either (and was probably most hurt by Ang Lee's poorly received freshmen effort on the title, and the ambiguity as to whether this was a sequel or a new franchise).
Meanwhile Smallville is stll alive in the ratings, and there is a great deal of anticipation for Ironman 2. Batman 3 is mostly stalled on the creative side, but that's a delay not a lack of interest in the property.
So, I don't worry too much about Cap or Thor or the Avengers Films. All are active current titles, all have a loyal fan base without a great deal of negative feelings among the creatives. Since Marvel is tying them all together, they are banking on the success of Iron Man (and maybe one other big hit between Thor, Cap or Hulk 2/3) to carry the Avengers.
I don't think there's a lack of interest in the material, just a probably a bit more concern in what material comes to the screen. The Spirit was a gamble as was Watchmen, but I think the studio knew that going in. I don't think the powers that be would put an active title like Cap (which is right now selling really really well) in the same category as those two. And the Punisher film did as well as the punisher films always do (lousy) so perhaps the moral there is a movie about a vengence seeking psychopath only works with Charles Bronson (and he's not really a super hero since he has no powers or super villians, and didn't even really have much of a costume).
REally, given Cap's current Brubaker fueled revival, I would expect a greater interest in a Cap film, even over the Thor Film, and really the only issue is how much bucky/winter soldier can they work into it, since that's whose selling right now.
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| Posted: 26 Apr 2009 21:01 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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I didn't say people were serious, I said it 'seemed' like a lot of people 'sounded' like they believed it and more than that, that Rogan (or Rogen) would be a good CAP choice. Both of which are incorrect, in my opinion of course. But I got into that one already.
????????????????????????
Who, you honestly think people would be serious about Rogen? *Jokes*
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About Stallone and Swazenneggar, they had presence, a larger-than-life feel, and they were famous, but after awhile the honeymoon's over, 15 minutes are up
You can barely hear what comes out of Stallones mouth, but he mangaged to make good movies. And Arnold is what? Government of California?
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Punisher was so bad, everyone wants to forget it
It was overrated, bad actors, bad scenery, and terrible brutal storyline line. It was only in theaters 'til about the end of December.
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and I'm not hearing good news with the upcoming Wolvie movie (I want Wolvie to be a success, could lead to Xmen first class),
It'll probaly make a good amount of money. It's just not the actual "X-Men". I mean, after literally killing all the mutants in X3, where are you suppoded to go now? X3 wrapped up the Xmen series.
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Ford, man, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Airforce one, Patriot games, ...Hollywood Homicide, A submarine movie, that last Indy movie,... I don't think I contradicted myself, I was fully well aware of Stallone and Swarzeneggers fame and success.
Just like Clint Eastwood.
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Both of which are incorrect, in my opinion of course. But I got into that one already
WE KNOW.
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but I'm sure RAMBO wasn't meant to be an everyman, do you?
Way I look at it, Rambo was a great movie, aside of all the sickening parts.
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And as for there '15' minutes. You could not have used a worse discription for these two actors. Try more like 15 years, and that is still a little too shy, especially for Stallone, who, whether you agree or not has been a hollywood powerhouse since 1976.
Arnold screwed up his acting carrier.
Stallone still has it, just not a typical "Rambo: First Blood" or "Rocky".
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Also, you say Arnold almost ruined comic movies, well not for very long as stated by you since Batman and Robin came out in 1997 and Blade (which brought comic movies back, right?) came out in 1998. A whole wopping year later.
Arnnold is known for Terminator, but honestly, from my opinion, "Batman and Robin" (One with Arnold) was a terrible movie.
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As did Cameron's company that made Terminator2.
T2 was a great movie for my reasons:
1.My favorite band sang for them, "You could be Mine"
2.T2 has the best characters
3.It was just plain awesome, period.
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Blade got a small production fund, some 30 million and made a good profit somewhere 50 mill. Fox okayed the Xmen, spent somewhere in the 70 mill (Very hesitant and unsure of it's success), and that went on to make 150
Blade is like "The Punisher" (2004). Huge sucess, unsure if the should make a sequel. X-Men was just a great movie, a must own.
My responses.
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| Posted: 26 Apr 2009 21:35 |
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Just to make the point I didn't think it was so outlandish of an idea that Rogen (the new trim Rogen) might play Cap. I recognized that the article was probably an april fools joke, but that I thought it raised an itneresting idea with regard to Captain America and could lead to some out of the box thinking on the character and the actor to play him.
I know to some people the though of anyone either than an established jock action star playing Cap is blasphemy, but I do think that there is something to be said for nontraditional casting.
Really, the acrobatics will be done with wires and cgi. The body will be built by a personal trainer a couple months prior to production. What is needed is an actor, a good actor, and someone that can give depth to a role.
Rogen probably isn't such an actor(though we've never really seen him stretch his acting chops), but approaching Cap first as a character and second as a hero gives you the opportunity to consider a wider range of person.
If someone beat the hell out of Phillip Seymor Hoffman to get him in shape, I think he'd give us a fantastic Cap, but I don't think alot of the people here would even consider the idea.
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| Posted: 26 Apr 2009 21:44 |
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It was 97 that Hollywood kept releasing a overpromoted, blockbuster movie every week, didn't give the audience a chance to come back to the theatre, later, they had these stragedicallly released movie, Spiderman2, two weeks before Attack of the clones, that worked out well. Someone off the street called in to a radio station and explained why boxing movie like Cinderella man (With Russel Crowe, off his success on Gladiator and Master and commander), didn't do well, too many of them, not to expect that in a few years there will be another boxing movie, it's giving it time for us to miss the product.
Just some well planning scheduling and marketing techniques is what I'm asking. With Spidey3, Pirates3, Dark Knight, making gazzillions, Hollywood will go crazy and just keep pumping out crap and not taking the time and effort to make a good movie.
These boards are great, they get free response from us fans and maybe they'll listen to us or guage the general publics view of cb movies.
My research on who goes to movies, retired couples, plenty of spending money, house paid off, retirement fund, ... a nostalgic movie (Cap 1940 setting) can attract their attention.
Built in audience, thats us. If that 90s Cap movie was good enough for the studios and test screeners to be released to theaters, I would've found the movie house to see the movie. It's also the new marketing promotion, Star Trek fan promotion (If so many people likes this product, lets check it out), promote the fans, sell the movie.
Couples with kids all grown up, my brother and his wife are now going out to movies. Former cb reader, knew Cap from childhood, lets go see it.
Couples with kids, problem because it's expensive. It's not just their kids, it's the neighbor kids, friends and relatives. Has to be a worth-while movie, Spiderman, Batman, Disney animated movie, ... thus the critic reviews. If they say it's a good movie, good for adults and kids, they'll make the effort.
Finally, the teens and young adults. They travel in groups, date in groups, talk within their groups. This is the audience that should add to the bulk of Cap's profit. Critics review can impact them, but it's that word-of-mouth thats important. What are they watching? What are their movie idols? Stallone may be our idol, is the Rock theirs? Can an actor from our generation make a comeback by appealing to them like Downey jr? Can an actor/idol they like do Captain America and not offend us the fans?
Lately it's been down, economical issue, everyone's watching CSI and American Idol, not embracing new concepts or spending money on so so movies. I've done that when I had a lot of spending money, now I don't, and I'm not wasting a lot of time to go see a movie.
Let's discuss all the problems or promote what's good. Watchmen was good, I went to see it, liked it, and I'm not a Watchmen fan. I hope the non-Capfans feel that way for this movie and would enjoy Cap in the Avengers, Cap 2 and 3, and an animated or live-action tv show.
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| Posted: 27 Apr 2009 18:12 |
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why did they kill him this make no sences
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| Posted: 27 Apr 2009 18:13 |
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why did they kill him this make no sences
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| Posted: 27 Apr 2009 18:41 |
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why did you post this twice that make no sences
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| Posted: 30 Apr 2009 00:01 |
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What is needed is an actor, a good actor, and someone that can give depth to a role.
It takes a movie, what? 1 year to make, maybe 2?
it's early 2009, the so called "producers" and "actors" and "script" and "director" hasn't been chosen, or written yet. 2 MORE YEARS PEOPLE!
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why did they kill him this make no sences
1. The value and money of people actually buying Captain America comics, killing him was a huge turning piont the the civil war issues, what was Steve supppsoed to do, just get in jail, then get out? I think not. What the writers thought was that Cap has been around since the birth of Marvel comics, (70 years) so they decided "Hey, lets make Captain America die". So they id, got published and thousands to millions of people saw the comic, grabbed their attention and bought, News reoprters got the idea to post on CNN and all those news channels.
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why did you post this twice that make no sences
Sort of a glithch, it happpens for new guys.
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