I think the patriotic spirit of America, the feeling of pride in our country, an appreciation for the men that died for her should be a part of a Cap movie.
Give America something to tear up and swell with pride over in a Cap movie.
Let's hope the writers of the Cap movie remember the obvious. Anybody that wears the colors of the United States flag on his costume is going to be super patriotic and really love his country.
I love this classic old Porky Pig cartoon where Porky learns history from Uncle Sam. Maybe a cartoon but it really shows classic patriotism.
I don't know...maybe they should have Cap be a Commie instead?
I'm joking of course.
You know, the issue with regard to Cap will be having the pride without coming off as corny.
It's easy be a proud American when you're fighting against the Nazi's so I doubt the Spirit of the Golden Age of Comics will be far from Cap.
They can go the strait action adventure route, ala Indiana Jones. But personally I hope they seek to make Cap as multidimensional as he was in the 60's onward.
One of the best things about Cap is his struggle to be the symbol of the Ideals of America even when America is not living up it's ideals.
How you handle that struggle will be interesting. You don't want a lot of long winded speechifying by the Heros of the Villains, but you do want something to show that Cap is the Spirit of America and her People not necessarily simply an Arm of the Government.
He is a Soldier, but a Soldier for something grander than whomever happens to sit in the white house of the congress on any given day.
I'm fine with cap being patriotic, but the difficulty for the writer is to keep it from falling into jingoism.
Posted: 12 Mar 2009 19:42
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Quote: You know, the issue with regard to Cap will be having the pride without coming off as corny
I know what you mean, but I've been thinking on the other hand perhaps the fact that we could ever see love of America as corny is our problem and not Cap's. There in lies the real story, a man who is unashamed to love America and the basic foundations she was built on in a time where pessimism reigns supreme. Maybe this old patriot could teach us a thing or two. I think that's the way the writers should approach it.
To do that they need to really study the attitudes of the general populace back in World War II and during the writing of the Constitution. __________________
Well, I guess what you have is this, you can have liberty, equality & fraternity as your ideals, but you don't want a guy coming off telling you how France is the greatest country in the world. You know the ideals of the revolution are a beautiful thing, but how those ideals have been interpreted and how the nation bearing that slogan enacts or ignores those ideals is the question.
Cap is an optimist, believeing in the nobel spirit that burns in every humans breast, but he also embodies the notions of humility, and sacrafice.
You see, one thing that strikes me as false in the notion of cap as patriot, is I could never imagine Cap leading a parade waving a flag. He's always the quite man who does his duty to let others take the credit.
Cap is not the man who gives speeches on the greatness of his ideas or anyone elses. He is plain spoken, and honest, and decent guy. If that embodies America, great, but I don't think Cap would ever be the kind of guy to say that outloud.
Cap is a lead by example kind of guy. He's not going to get into a political fight with someone, but he's going to live by his ideals, and where his uniform and that's all the patriotism he needs to show.
Like a father who shows his love not with words or grand gestures, but by putting bread on the table and never being harsh or cruel. Cap shows his love for country by service and quite dignity.
When someone says, the United States doesn't live up to it's ideals, Cap is likely to agree, with the caveate that the power of America is it's people can change the way America behaves, and that the only thing keeping America from living up to its ideals is the American people themselves. America is not a place or a set of laws it is a philosophy. And all men who wish to live free and equal are Americans, just as they are Berliners and Parisians.
Liberty, Equality, Fraternity are the ideals of Captain America. All men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with unalienable rights. To Cap the natural default of the human spirit is America. But that means that there is no cause for marching in the street to show ones love. It just means that you serve the world in such a way that all men may one day find a way to be free, to be Americans regardless of the nation they are loyal to.
It's not Corny, so long as you show that Cap's patriotism is a burden, a sacrafice he carries, not a badge to be flashed, a gaudy goo gaw to rammed down the world's throat.
I think it's great that When Joe Simon and Jack Kirby made Cap they didn't make him super human. No American is super human. We strive to be, like cap, mearly the best of humanity, not beyond it, not above it, just equal to the burden that it is to be a Freeman.
Posted: 12 Mar 2009 22:36
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Got to post this before I forget it. This the Lone Ranger creed is something I think could be useful in creating a Captain America type persona on the big screen.
"I believe.....
That to have a friend, a man must be one.
That all men are created equal and that everyone has within himself the power to make this a better world.
That God put the firewood there, but that every man must gather and light it himself.
In being prepared physically, mentally, and morally to fight when necessary for that which is right.
That a man should make the most of what equipment he has.
That 'this government of the people, by the people, and for the people' shall live always.
That men should live by the rule of what is best for the greatest number.
That sooner or later...somewhere...somehow...we must settle with the world and make payment for what we have taken.
That all things change but truth, and that truth alone, lives on forever.
In my Creator, my country, my fellow man."
Quote: Cap is not the man who gives speeches on the greatness of his ideas or anyone elses.
Im not sure I quite agree, after all Cap is famous for making lots of speeches while fighting the bad guys. Spider-man has been one to remark on this a few times. This is part of his personality to inspire others by his words and actions.
I appreciate your point of view. I think some of what you say is accurate to a point, but I also think there is nothing wrong whatsoever with showing love and pride for America. Like I said Cap's uniform along speaks volumes about his love for country. Again I think a grand opportunity is lost if the movie guys don't give us a wise old fashioned Cap who can teach these modern know it alls we have in the world today a little something about common sense and good old American know how. __________________
You are right about Cap taling in the midst of a battle. Usually prompted by a villian's attempt to rattle him. That is a particular conceit of comics that doesn't translate well to the Big Screen, the dialopue during the fight scene.
You'll notice that even Spider-man's classic quips were left out for the most part of the spiderman films because it would have made the character seem kind of silly to be yammering all the time when the Goblin was trying to kill him.
And that's what I mean by corny. It's not the content of what Cap is talking about, but when and how he choses to talk about it.
The guy ran out and joined the army, and volunteered for an experiment when they told him he couldn't serve. That speaks of Cap's patriotism without saying a word. There is a saying in screen writing that says don't say it, show it. The reason for this is two fold. First because excessive exposition, dialogue, and voice over are the mark of a lazy writer. The second is that since people don't usually go around narrating their lives, it seems kind of silly for this character to do so.
It works in comics because it is a static medium and you need to communicate to the reader what the character is doing. But on television it becomes camp with Adam West saying to no one in particular "I...just...need...to reach...my...utlity belt". It's not that patriotism is corny, but that such things are best expressed wordlessly, with the swell of pride. Well framed shots of that shield and and the blood of heros will tell you all you ever need to know about Cap's patriotism without ever saying a word.
You even have the ability to make the arguments about where the nation doesn't live up to it's ideals in this way, as Cap does what his heart and honor commands with regard to his fellow soldiers even if the customs of the day seperated them.
I don't know who they have to write the cap film (in my heart I dream my agent will call with the job, but I know that's not happening any time soon) but I hope they get a writer as good as the ones they've gotten for other big super hero films of late. And they get someone who understand that you can tell far more about a character from his actions than his words.
Posted: 13 Mar 2009 17:21
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Surely nobody would dream of having Cap pull a Super Friends and say, must....reach...shield.
I understand where your coming from, but I still like good dialogue in a movie. Back before huge special effects dialogue used to be what people remembered most about a movie.
What would Dirty Harry movies be without, "Go ahead make my day" "Do you feel lucky" etc? __________________
Just check out this dialogue right before the Duke gets to fighting.
Love this part - "I'm 30 years older than you are, had my back broke and my hip twice, but on my worst day I could beat the hell out of you." - John Wayne __________________
