| Posted: 10 May 2007 17:54 |
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I've been reading comics for...oh...28 years or so. In fact, I have to give Stan Lee credit for me even knowing how to read. I had an uncle that didn't like to babysit so he'd just give me a bunch of Spiderman comics and say "Now leave me alone!"
My fanboy credentials are well-established to anyone who knows me, and I've paid my dues. I've put up with the ribbing and I've been told they're not literature, and they'll rot my brain, etc etc. I've been pigeonholed as the guy who lives in his mom's basement when he's 40 and has never kissed a girl. Yada yada yada. Anyone who's around the fanboy subculture knows exactly what I mean.
So now I'm 33 and I've had 3 kids in 4 years (so much for that whole 'not kissing girls' thing) and I have begotten little fanboys in my own image. And maybe I'm becoming an old fuddy-duddy, but there seems to be a more sensual aspect to a lot of comics thatn they're used to be. The first time I noticed it was in the early 90's I guess when Marvel put out their swimsuit issue. For the record, I thought it was stupid, and still do. I've never gotten particularly excited about what is, after all, a DRAWING OF A GIRL, but to each his own.
Now, as the dad and the husband and the preacher man, I am very careful about what I expose myself to, and what I expose my boys to. I'm not even talking about things like Vampirella or Witchblade. I'm talking about stuff like, oh, let's say, Black Cats costume in 1985 versus now. As my wife said one day "If she's trying to avoid detection by wearing black, why all the cleavage?"
It has reached a point where I am leery to even let my kids leaf through an issue of Wizard anymore because every other page is either a demon or half-naked chick or a half-naked demon chick. Its rough, and I'm not sure what the solution is because even the traditionally 'safe' mainstream titles seem to be trying to garner the 'girlfriendless fanboy' dollar.
Maybe I am being the old fuddy-duddy, or maybe God has changed my sensibilities about some things. I was just wondering if anyone had noticed this trend.
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| Posted: 10 May 2007 18:07 |
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I can see your point, the witchblade and vampirella always seemed a little bit rediculous as far as they go, but I also have grown up with Wonder Woman which was like one of my favorite shows as a kid. So I don't know about the Black Cat showing cleavage being a problem exactly. I can understand not wanting to let your kids read a wizard magazine. It's not really written for kids. There's a lot in there not really suitable for kids especially if you are trying to keep an eye out on what they read and watch.
Modern comics are more for teens and adults now than they were in the old days. The stories back in the day were intelligent and a adult could read them, but a kid could too. The main thing you got to worry about nowadays is liberal indoctrination and propaganda in some books. I don't know I'd think I'd keep my kids comic book collecting focused on the older stuff. To me it was always cool as a collector to own stuff that was older anyway.
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| Posted: 11 May 2007 00:32 |
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| Posted: 11 May 2007 05:05 |
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You know Tim, I have a few Captain Americas from, um..probably the early 80's where Cap was whining to somebody (don't remember who) about how America spends so much less on social welfare programs than the rest of the industrialized world and how oppressive our sytem was and yada yada yada....what a difference a writer makes.
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| Posted: 11 May 2007 17:24 |
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Wow must have been right before the Reagan era took control.
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| Posted: 11 May 2007 19:58 |
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I don't have young kids, but if and when I do- I'm doubting that mainstream comics will be that big of a deal for me to explain to them. I guess thats just one of the things that goes along with comics- unrealistically drawn people in painted on clothes. The only danger I see is that kids might think they have to look like that, but at some point they've got to learn the difference between fiction and reality. I don't buy the "Barbie argument" that kids will have horrible lives if toys or cartoons present unrealistic body types. Everyone has to learn how to be comfortable with their looks on their own, regardless of what society thinks.
And I agree with Tim that the messages in comics are directed more at grownups. They really aren't for little kids anymore, as evidenced by Marvel putting out a series of books aimed at younger readers recently.
All the same, I do think at some point kids will enter the real world- there isn't much sense in shielding them fro everything. I'd actually be more worried about the intellectual content of whatever they devote their time to- some kids shows are just mind numbingly stupid.
The best thing a person can learn is how to stay logical when faced with adverse conditions in reality. You could see a busty woman walking down the street- she needs to be trusted only by her character- not because she looks good. The thing I'll be teaching my son is not to let that dull his senses to the point of bad decisions.
As far as "liberal indoctrination" in comics- there isn't any secret agenda there. A writer can't help but put his opinions in his work somewhere- look at Time Rider. I hope my kids will read a variety of different view points and make up their own minds. Alan Moore will prob be at the top of the reading list.
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| Posted: 11 May 2007 21:52 |
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That's right read Time-Rider for lots of mind boggling comic book action at it's greatest.
But as far as liberal indoctrination in comics, yes writers put their feelings into comics, and kids are easily swayed into one form of thought or another. That's why the good Book says to train up a child in the way that he should go. So ideaology is really really important. Most comics aren't going to necessarily put ideas in their heads, but there is the few wacko liberal garbage that creeps through that I wouldn't want my kid reading. There is just a ever more widening gap between those of us with old fashioned values and the media's sense of right and wrong. Personally, I don't think right and wrong change just because the times change.
I have actually enjoyed some of Alan Moore's work. I haven't read the Watchmen I hear it's pretty liberal and over the top values wise, but there were a few Superman stories that I really thought were pretty cool like the last issue of Superman before John Byrne took over.
As far as Time-Rider, yes there are Christian values and ideas in there, but nothing you wouldn't have seen on TV back in the 1950's or early 60's. It's not a sermon, but what I hope for is a reverent entertaining superhero action book that doesn't deny God's existence. For instance you want have a character giving the explanation of a supervillain or evil monsters' existance due to the Big Bang without at least some other character giving an opposing opinion. I think in the future my perspective can lead to some hopefully very original type of stories not seen in your average comic. Something I hope that makes people think as well as be entertaining without making them feel bad if they don't subscribe to my beliefs unless you are really really really liberal then you will probably feel terrible about something in there.
John Byrne's writing always interested me, no politics or anything just good storytelling.
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 05:00 |
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I'm sorry, I thought Watchmen was sooo overrated!
Almost as gibberish as Dark Knight Strikes Again.
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 05:03 |
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You know, at the heart of the issue behind this post is my concern that I won't be able to pass on to my kids the medium I loved so much as a kid because as the world has gotten darker, it's not the medium it was anymore. Kinda sad, but painfully predictable.
Tim, have you ever heard of a movie called "Timechanger". I think you'd like it.
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 06:59 |
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Well, I think those books are fantastic- they preceded comics taking a turn for the better. But hey, that's just my opinion and that of a reinvigorated comic book buying public. Different strokes for different folks.
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 15:27 |
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No haven't heard of Timechanger. I looked it up on imdb.com it says - A Bible professor from 1890 comes forward in time to the present via a time machine and cannot believe the things that he sees!
Sounds pretty cool, I haven't seen it at the video store. The local store is starting to get Christian movies in, maybe they'll get that one in too so I can rent it.
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Well, I think those books are fantastic- they preceded comics taking a turn for the better. No question quality wise that Alan Moore can write. Like I said though I haven't read the Watchmen. At the time it came out I was mainly into mainstream comics like Superman, Batman, Cap etc.
As far as adult themes in comics, I kind of wish comics would stay readable for kids. Superheroes are supposed to be about truth, justice, and yes the American way. For kids that love to read comics they can be quite a influence in how they view life later on just like watching a lot of television. I'm for comics adults can enjoy, but I don't think it's necessary to cover themes that are completely unsuitable for kids either.
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 17:20 |
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first of all, mostly the today captain america comics are for grown ups. what is up with that? i mean cap is my all time favoriter superhero! whats the piont of reading it then if they have blood, swear words, too much nonsense?!
well, that's my opion. yours might be different though.
i can't live like that.
having all captain america comics T+.
i need your opinon about mine.
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 19:02 |
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Ok thanks, I haven't noticed a whole lot of swearing in Cap comics but maybe I'm just not paying attention.
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| Posted: 12 May 2007 23:09 |
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'cause it really bothers me. ecpecilally Ed braubker he is a bad righter for comics.
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| Posted: 13 May 2007 09:29 |
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I agree Pole, Ed Brubaker is lousy. I stopped reading because his corny dialog was literally not worth 2 bucks.
I think we can have the best of both words. When I think of "adult themes" I think it isn't that I'd have to shield a kid from something, but that there's no way that they'd understand it. Watchmen is a perfect example. That comic has sex all through it, and it is a tasteful work of art, but I wouldn't hand it to a kid because if they even took the time to read it (doubtful)- they'd misinterpret the info. Watchmen couldn't be less for 12 year olds. (I know 40 year olds that wouldn't get it!)
So sure, "BAM" and "POW" until a certain age and there should be some comics that supply that. The benefit to reading skills is through the roof- most of the smartest guys I know now were all comic book fans at some point.
But I'm not in the same market as a 12 year old, so I want something more reflective of the world I live in. We should have those books available too. Censorship is going overboard.
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| Posted: 13 May 2007 20:48 |
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and second of all, there is barely any action.
all of it is steve rogers not savin the f'n world!
for love of cap ED QUIT RIGHTING DUMB CAP COMICS!!! GEEZ HE SHOULD BE ALVIE RIGHT NOW!!! HE IS BULLET PROFF!!! STRONGEST MAN WHO EVER LIVED!!
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| Posted: 13 May 2007 22:08 |
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MArvel is putting out a whole line of kid friendly books right now under their Marvel Adventures imprint, featuring Spider-Man, Ff, Avengers, Iron Man, and Hulk...
I'd also suggest Spider-Girl, and X-Men: First Class from the regular Marvel Universe as safe reading material for your children.
Good luck.
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| Posted: 13 May 2007 22:25 |
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I read some of those, some are pretty good, and some are downright boring. Too bad comics don't show up at local stores anymore like in the old days. I don't see how they expect to get new readers if the readers have to drive 30 minutes to a comic book shop.
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| Posted: 13 May 2007 23:56 |
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why is spider man so famous?
geez, he can't even fight 20 people like cap can.
I'll cut to the chase
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there needs to be more kid captain america comics.
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| Posted: 14 May 2007 00:03 |
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Code:
i need to fine something to about this twist up on cap comics
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| Posted: 14 May 2007 00:04 |
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[img]ugh[/img]
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| Posted: 14 May 2007 00:07 |
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[url=hmmm][/url]
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| Posted: 14 May 2007 17:59 |
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dude the url button and the image button has to have a url address in it to work.
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| Posted: 14 May 2007 23:53 |
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ohh
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| Posted: 15 May 2007 18:58 |
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Quote:
why is spider man so famous? A big part of Spider-Man's popularity is that he has the same problems we do. Problems with girls, bills, life, etc. People relate to the fact that when the costume comes off he has to get groceries and mail the bills like we do.
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geez, he can't even fight 20 people like cap can. I would say that has alot to do with Spider-Man pulling his punches. If he wanted to, he could probably cripple or kill people with his blows. I have also complained earlier that he is escecially incompetent in his fighting in Ultimate Spider-Man, sometimes that's just plain hard to read. Another factor is that Spidey is just an experienced fighter and Cap is a master of just about all forms of unarmed combat and is the greatest hand-to-hand combatant the world has ever known. Spidey has cool powers, but even those don't measure up to Caps training.
If you read Civil War, there is a part where Cap and Spidey are fighting and Spidey says: "This guy has forgotten more about hand-to-hand combat than I will ever know".
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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