| Posted: 30 Mar 2007 16:45 |
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Just found your site, I have read many of the points made. I have served 2 tours in in Iraq, kosovo and Korea have seen the best and worst of mankind. I think that people have lost touch. The writers were born out of an age when true heroes are needed. Cap himself was fighting before America entered WWII. This new age writers expect HEROES to be bad to say it is ok to blure the lines (BATMAN PUNISHER) but you can't with Cap. He lives by a code. By americas founding fathers vision and the only way around it to kill him off and replace him with someone that would.I think this goes deeper than shockvalue. It strikes at the very core of young minds. Why else the sudden change. Just look at the Caps past look at the cival war. The writersare saying There is no place for him. No place for our traditional ideas no place for America.
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| Posted: 31 Mar 2007 16:39 |
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I have served 2 tours in in Iraq, kosovo and Korea have seen the best and worst of mankind. Thank you for your service. 
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The writers were born out of an age when true heroes are needed. Cap himself was fighting before America entered WWII.
It truly was a different time and in my opinion a better time.
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This new age writers expect HEROES to be bad to say it is ok to blure the lines We have discussed this before and have somewhat come to a conclusion the heroes like Cap and Superman seem to be getting ridiculed and possibly phased out. It's a sad state of affairs.
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I think this goes deeper than shockvalue. It strikes at the very core of young minds. Absolutely. I wonder what happened when a young reader saw Cap die.
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Just look at the Caps past look at the cival war. The writersare saying There is no place for him. No place for our traditional ideas no place for America. Good point, and that is what really worries me. A hero with old fasioned values and love for his country has no place? Not good.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 31 Mar 2007 20:04 Last Edited By: Tim |
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A hero with old fasioned values and love for his country has no place?
I know what you mean, but to quote Rocky. "It ain't over till it's over!" If Cap don't come back I'll just keep working till I get my own old fashioned heroes published like Time-Rider
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| Posted: 31 Mar 2007 20:08 |
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A hero with old fasioned values and love for his country has no place? Not good.
Not good at all.
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I think that people have lost touch
Seems to be the trend. And that is sad to say of our country. At least in the mainstream, I mean, we're here, so there are others who think as we do.
Cap must be in the minds of fans though. At Superherohype, CAP has the most votes for a movie after the next hulk.
Link to the poll, if you have not seen it yet:
http://www.superherohype.com/
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| Posted: 31 Mar 2007 21:44 |
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I voted for Cap. Thanks WH.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 01 Apr 2007 07:03 |
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Hi Medic I won't make this long, and I could. I got into all kinds of trouble when i was young. I also saw a lot. i was discharged in 1975. It wasn't then like it is now. Wearing your class "A"s out you got mixed reactions, I got screamed at in a car wash once by some teen aged girl, all I could make out was something about coming in there in my "green" suite. My dad was not a bad or cruel man, he just worked second shift all my life, I never saw him, this was the 50s and 60s. My surrogate dads were Roy Rogers, The Lone Ranger, Hopalong Cassidy and starting around '63 or '64 Captain America. He's the one who had I think the greatest long term effect. And you hit it right on the head...Cap is an ideal. He is (and I mean still is) bigger than the people who own the character.
As has been said, thank you for your service, our prayers are with you. Remember we don't have to give in to what THEY believe, But even if in the end those of us who stand for REAL ACTUAL morals, those of us who really believe that all people are created eaqual, those of us who are willing to be naive in the face of others scorn, fall, it doesn't mean we should lay down and give up. We are the only uope this country has, live it vote it and teach it to yuor kids.
I respect your service sir, though I don't know you, but remember this, honor is real. A man named David Crockett once said about life, "be always sure your right then go ahead."
No matter what Marvel does, Cap won't die till we let him and the same is true of the dream our founding fathers had for this nation.
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| Posted: 01 Apr 2007 10:58 |
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Are you saying that when Captain America died in the comics, Marvel is killing the American dream? Is this like when they made a movie on the assassination of John F. Kennedy, they're destroying the American government? Haven't we gotten smarter over the years that the American dream or government or people can't be taken down by some media entertainment gimmick?
Maybe in the 70s, or 80s, but I believe we're all smart and confident that we won't see this 'direction' Cap is moving to, as an insult to the American way.
Right now, it's SHOCK, people are talking about the death of Cap. Media outlets are jumping all over it, using this as a comment about how America needs heroes, even Cap cocreator Joe Simon made a comment. Later, it'll be America without Cap, the Fallen son mini series, and then who is going to be the new Captain America, and finally, adventures of the new Captain America.
I'm just hoping that this direction or story line won't be stupid or mirrors too much to the Barry Allen/Flash/Wally West series.
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| Posted: 01 Apr 2007 21:02 |
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Did you actually read what i said, or stop halfway through? My point was that They can't kill the dream, nor Cap as long as WE don't let it die.
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| Posted: 01 Apr 2007 22:24 |
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No matter what Marvel does, Cap won't die till we let him and the same is true of the dream our founding fathers had for this nation. Right on paladin. I got what you said.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 14:52 |
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It's all good.
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 21:30 |
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I voted for Cap
Really? I voted for Ant-man 
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Thanks WH
Of course you're welcome. CAP MOVIE FOR LIFE! j/k!
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| Posted: 03 Apr 2007 21:44 |
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Is this like when they made a movie on the assassination of John F. Kennedy, they're destroying the American government? Haven't we gotten smarter over the years that the American dream or government or people can't be taken down by some media entertainment gimmick?
Maybe in the 70s, or 80s, but I believe we're all smart and confident that we won't see this 'direction' Cap is moving to, as an insult to the American way.
It takes many cuts to a tree to make it fall. Did you see those people in portland that were burning the flag and a stuffed soldier uniform. They were dressed in uniforms and masks. That would never have happened if we haven't let our guard down. Think of media as a drug it makes it easer to to deal with what is going on. For example. In Iraq during the invasion the carniage death didn,t effect me. I believe it was due to the reallism of movies. In that I was not sensitive to what I had been seeing, but the one thing that I can not let go was the smells the smells of death explosions the sand. Something the media has no controle of. I see less and less americans standing up taking back the american dream.
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| Posted: 04 Apr 2007 00:16 |
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As a whole the lot of us need to learn to do what's right rather than what's easy.
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| Posted: 04 Apr 2007 18:46 Last Edited By: Tim |
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True, true. We've become mind numbed media robots.
You know a thought occurred to me the other day that even when we disagree with someone about politics or morality that in the course of argument a part of us gets pulled toward the person's point of view we are disagreeing with. It's like human nature to want to get along with people and see their side, but it creates a question for me. Do we really whole heartedly stand where we would have stood if we had not ran into opposition? How much is our opinion and how much as been spoon fed to us? Sometimes I think I might be a bit more conservative than I am if it hadn't been for the constant voice of the opposition in everday life including TV, movies, and even friends.
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2007 03:11 |
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I find that if we can boil a question down to it's basic component it usually becomes a lot less gray. To those who want to break down the traditional morals we need to live by...shades of gray are all important.
Example: should I report something suspecious on an airplane? Wait' I might get suied, wait they might not really be suspicous it might just be me, wait will I hurt someone's feelings.... on and on and on when the answer is, yes if there is a potential danger report it. If the person or persons in question has an explaination they should also be glad that dangerous activity gets reported.
We let the water get muddied too often when the basic question will give a simple answer. Should I steal this? But I want it and I can't afford it, but I might suffer emotional damage if I don't get it. Answer, NO DON'T STEAL IT.
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2007 05:06 |
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My wife thinks I am taking the Cap. death to hard. I see her point she was born and raised in russia she does not understand America she has never seen a comic. So we were talking about it. I showed her that the cap is an idea people don't live and die by it but when someone does something to invade your fantasies it can get you upset. I told her to think of comics as modern mythology. (Mythology is something she is versed in) and imagine someone on the History Channel was saying something that is wrong she would be the first to change the channel. She said they should write a series that takes place in the future and show what it would be like take the other heroes true and honest traits and show people what it means to lose the Cap. Would Ironman recant what would an aged spiderman do would all super heroes go underground what of the balance of good and evil.
I am getting my teaching degree I think it would be cool to teach modern mythology because I believe it reflects our society. I can only imagine the debates. More than who can beat who but what would be the consequences what do you think?
My reflection for today is. Will the death of the Cap be worth it. What was the purpose. I heard the author wanted to show the readers just that. “What Cap. America meant to us. He feels it is best showed through his death. Or is this a money thing after all an Iron man movie is in the process of being filmed (Robert Downy JR as Ironman) when will the cap get his shot?
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2007 14:29 |
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Cap movie is on the way like 2009 I believe is what I last heard.
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2007 00:22 |
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I served for 24 years. Started in the Navy back in Beirut and fiinished in the Coast Guard. I agree that the "fallen hero" idea is what the current writers like and Cap doesn't really fit the mold. Cap walks his talk. Mark Waid said the same thing when he wrote the introduction to the novelized version of "infinite Crisis." I really agree with him. Comics need to be taken away from the corporate suits and put back into the hands of the fans. Our kids (and us big kids) need heroes to be heroes again.
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2007 11:14 |
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Time to step back and reflect what's happening with this board. I believe with the explosion of entertainment shows and numerous gossip magazines, a new type of promotion evolved (Back in the 80s, I was taught Bait&switch, endorsement, scientific advertisement). It's establishing a drama or crisis that require us to investigate, listen to the news, read the books or listen to that lone person collecting celebrity news or coming up with conspiracy theories.
With Cap's death, people are saying 'now we need heroes', 'America needs heroes', and even I defended the American dream in a sort of argutive way.
Lets not get too serious about the surroundings and whats-to-come, and get back to rapping with Cap.
Anyone pick up the similarities to John F. and Bobby Kennedy assassinations? Even a touch of the Manchurian candidate thrown in (I just hope Sharon Carter doesn't get too distraught and kills herself.).
Say, back in Brubaker/Epting Cap issue 1, Lukin and the Skull killed the Soviet's version of Cap, the Red Guardian, ... a foreboding moment?
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2007 16:02 |
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You know I think this whole story line would be a lot more interesting to me if I knew Steve Rogers was coming back for sure and within a timely manner. I don't want to wait 10 years for the return of Cap. Sure I'd buy that book 10 years from now, but heck I'll be in my 40's by then. I want it fixed now dang it!
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| Posted: 22 Jun 2007 20:06 |
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huh.
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