| Posted: 28 Feb 2007 00:51 |
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I recent weeks, we, the members of this board have had some off color discussions about who should play Captain America in the upcoming movie. It seems older people such as myself, Tim and WHO311 are looking for an unknown due to the fact that the action heroes we grew up with are really, really old now.
What I'm saying is that many people my age grew up with large than life heroes in the late 70's and 80's. Spider-Man, Cap, Superman, Batman, Han Solo, Captain Kirk, Indiana Jones, Conan, John Rambo, Col. Braddock, etc. These guys were tough and knew how to get things done. We hold our heroes very near and dear and don't like them to be desicrated.
All of my friends and my 4 cousins have similair interests as I and much in common. One trait is that we don't like this new wave of 'action heroes' or pop culture stars screwing up what we hold to be almost sacred. And when I say 'pop culture' I mean sissy actors and boy bands or anything else young girls like.
My friends who were Daredevil fans since kindergarden were crushed Affleck played him. One wrote a letter to Marvel filled mostly with 4-letter words. I was none too happy when I found out two members of NSYNC was going to be in AOTC. Now they're talking about rumors of Pitt signing a 3 picture deal to play Cap. To a lesser extent, that prima donna Triple H might play Conan. 
If I have learned anything from hanging out in comic shops, pro wrestling events and the internet it's that fans of these sort of things are not fans of the aforementioned effiminate male actors these days.
Maybe some younger members of the board can explain it to me. It seems your generation is one of anti-heroes (Stone Cold Steve Austin and Wolverine for example) and also one that does not apprciate good heroes. When I was watching Superman, all the younger people made tons of smart-ass remarks about how he was 'too good', and has 'too many' powers. This coming from a generation who wants uber-heroes...and villians.
So if the young generation cares little about what straight up good and decent heroes, why bother casting a known actor, especially one disliked by comic fans in general for the role? Is it to draw women to the theatre? Or do younger people actually consider these actors to be their action heroes?
Also, maybe some of the older members here can help me understand this better. Am I getting old and set in my ways or am I making a correct judgment? I hope it's the latter, I think it is. Action heroes died in the 90's. Arnold and Stallone just got worse and worse. Chuck did too. Ford went batty as did Seagal.
Basing this assumption on past experience, fans of comics/sci-fi/action fans have never been fans of effiminate actors or pop culture. If this is true or untrue, I would really like to know so we can set the record straight.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 28 Feb 2007 05:16 |
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Well I agree with you on most stuff, but I think we have to be open minded to the idea that new actors can be good. I think Affleck was given too much of a hard time for Daredevil for instance.
I like the really good moral heroes the best, but I do like Wolverine and some other anti-heroes like the old Jonah Hex comics. What I don't understand is when kids totally dismiss the traditional heroes like Cap or Superman for the anti-hero. There's room enough for both I suppose.
After all Clint Eastwood was the perfect anti-hero some might say with his spaghetti westerns and dirty harry. I think there has to be some balance though.
I think what kids like today isn't in the same boat though. I think their moral center is moved so far away they don't even know whats right and wrong anymore. Political correctness is the new religion, and I'm sorry to say I'll bet a lot of kids are too stupid to understand political correctness is not the real definition for right and wrong. I'm not even sure Dirty Harry would be accepted by some younger audiences without shrieks of terror over his unpolitical correctness.
The world needs individuals who try to do whats right all the time not just when it's convenient. Superman and Captain America are the fictional ideal of that concept. Unfortunately sometimes it may not seem all that cool, but you know I guess teens have always been rebellious. It's wierd that they somewhow equate bad as being tough when that's not necessarily always the case. Sometimes it's the good guys that try to live by a moral code that have to be tougher than nails.
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| Posted: 28 Feb 2007 07:04 |
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but I think we have to be open minded to the idea that new actors can be good. Indeed. As I am very close minded of new actors. I should be open to new things.
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Political correctness is the new religion, and I'm sorry to say I'll bet a lot of kids are too stupid to understand political correctness is not the real definition for right and wrong You call it a religion? At least your cool about it. I consider PC to be a disease.
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After all Clint Eastwood was the perfect anti-hero some might say with his spaghetti westerns and dirty harry. When I was a kid, I never really considered dirty Harry to be an anti-hero. He broke rules to bring bad guys down. If someone was dangerous, Harry Calahan took him down with extreme prejudice. The new anti-heroes break rules just for the sake of breaking them.
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I'm not even sure Dirty Harry would be accepted by some younger audiences without shrieks of terror over his unpolitical correctness. Yeah, I can't see this younger generation seeing a criminal getting whacked with a Smith and Wesson model 29 entertaining...but I sure do!
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What I don't understand is when kids totally dismiss the traditional heroes like Cap or Superman for the anti-hero. I don't either. Especially since the are leaders of Marvel/DC when a group of heroes gets together. I believe you pointed that out in another topic.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 28 Feb 2007 21:10 |
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I think that in an ideal world alot of us hope that an actor can be found that will be perfect for the job, it would be great and some what inkeeping with the legend of the character. If we, the fans are lucky enough to hear that the producers have been very lucky and they have done a "Chris Reeve" for the part, now that would be great.
I must admit that Ben Affleck was not that badas Daredevil either, given to much of a hard time, the film was not to bad, well I liked it.
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| Posted: 28 Feb 2007 23:10 |
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It would be cool if they got a real military guy turned actor to play Cap.
Christopher Reeve was born to play Superman. He looked like him and cared a lot about how to portray Superman. He was a strict professional.
I really enjoyed Nicolas Cage's Ghost Rider. He made it a fun character. Any actor that likes Elvis is ok with me. Maybe that should be the criteria for a good Captain America. They have to be a big Elvis fan.
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| Posted: 01 Mar 2007 05:32 |
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If we, the fans are lucky enough to hear that the producers have been very lucky and they have done a "Chris Reeve" for the part, now that would be great. Amen to that. How cool would that be? It's hard to bottle lightning twice, but we can dream.
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I must admit that Ben Affleck was not that badas Daredevil either, given to much of a hard time, the film was not to bad, well I liked it. It seems most here enjoyed Daredevil. I'm glad you did. I will have to admit that much of my dislike of Daredevil is due to my dislike of Affleck and the Hollywood bastardization of the Kingpin.
I am very close minded when it comes to these new actors. Then tonight I snapped on my wife when she asked me to watch "Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader". I went on a tirade about how stupid T.V. is, etc. I am becoming a close-minded, grumpy old man.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 01 Mar 2007 15:33 |
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I just hate American Idiot that comes on first. I'm into shows that have action or sci-fi elements in them like Smallville, Lost, 24, Jericho, etc. American Idol shouldn't even be prime time. It's just a rude version of Star Search for crying out loud.
I think the premise of the 5th grader show is ok but you'd have to be pretty dumb to go on that show without freshing up a little with some 5th grade books.
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| Posted: 01 Mar 2007 16:01 |
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I just hate American Idiot that comes on first. I hate this show with a passion.
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I think the premise of the 5th grader show is ok but you'd have to be pretty dumb to go on that show without freshing up a little with some 5th grade books. Good point. The last time I studied on a fifth grade level was.....fifth grade back in 1983. And what's with Jeff Foxworthy? Is he the Alex Trebeck of the 21st century? Treating the contestants like their dumb and acting like he knows all the answers when he has them right there on a card.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 01 Mar 2007 22:36 |
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I think I am a mix between the two. I like traditional superhero, and I like the anti-hero, to an extent. But I honestly believe that in order for both of them to be at their best (more so for the antihero, superhero can stand strong alone), you have to have both. How cool would it be to see a Superhero and an Antihero go at it on the big screen? Wolverine Vs. Cap or something like that? All because they did not agree on how to capture the bad guy. As I've said before. I always like the Punisher and he is an antihero, but he is practically a more brutal Dirty Harry. I will say I do not really like Sin City or really any of the characters in that movie. Never read the graphic novels. I really don't like wuss actors though. I think Affleck was okay as DD but if he played CAP, or the Punisher I would have burned Marvel Studios to the ground. And I know where it is!
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| Posted: 02 Mar 2007 15:32 |
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You made a good point anti-heroes in comics are nowhere without a regular hero to play off of. The regular heroes set the standard that the anti-hero breaks otherwise the anti-hero would just be the regular hero.
Heroes arguing in comics makes for interesting reading.
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| Posted: 02 Mar 2007 17:55 |
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Indeed. You guys both make good points. It would be cool to see Wolverines indestructible claws against Caps indestructible shield. Heroes at odds is some good reading. Spider-Man and the punisher is always good as Spidey is mortified when Punisher mows people down...as they so richly deserve.
I like both kinds of heroes also. Just curious as to how the good, wholesome heroes got pushed back into the shadows over the course of time.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 02 Mar 2007 23:18 |
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I don't know I guess it's hard to say. You know if Superman Returns had done Superman the way I feel he should have been done I think the younger generation might have taken to the film a little more because I really feel it needed more action to have reached it's full potential. Some good old fashioned superhero action was needed. He should have been waving the flag and been given a super brawl that would have left Metropolis in ruins. If a showing of sheer power isn't enough to impress a modern auidence then I give up. Their all on drugs.
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| Posted: 03 Mar 2007 00:27 |
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Well, remember this: "Truth, justice, all that stuff". I would wager to say Bryan Singer is not a supporter of president Bush or the war. Remember in Superman II when he flew the roof of the oval office with flag atop back to the president? Superman then told him he wouldn't let him down again. Very cool and patriotic scene. I really think if Kerry was elected maybe we would have got 'Truth justice and the American Way". Maybe not though. Remember Batman Begins? Rhas Al-Gul was oriental. For as long as I remember, he was arabic in the comics. Seems like most of this nation is a bunch of wusses with no testicular fortitude to tell it like it is. And God forbid we offend anybody. 
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 03 Mar 2007 03:06 |
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yeah, me I like to offend everybody when it calls for it. How else is anybody going to know when they are wrong?
You might be right on the American way thing, but you know it doesn't matter whether you like the President or not this is still a great country and Hollywood needs to see that the general public likes living here.
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| Posted: 03 Mar 2007 05:01 |
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but you know it doesn't matter whether you like the President or not this is still a great country and Hollywood needs to see that the general public likes living here. That's what I don't get. Democrat or Republican as president, this is the greatest place to live!
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 03 Mar 2007 07:43 |
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I know. I think Hollywood liberals, or maybe conservatives too, tend to lessen the office of the presidency depending on who is affiliated with what party at the time they are in office. I respect the office of the president regardless of who is in office at the time. While I was in the Marines, Clinton was in office at the time, and while I am not his biggest fan, I still would have taken a bullet for him. What at better way to go, saving the Pres' life. That outta do it. CAP would do the same too, so would Supes, but then again that would not be a very difficult task for him.
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| Posted: 03 Mar 2007 18:57 Last Edited By: Tim |
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Oooh! That's pushing it taking a bullet for Clinton, but I do think there needs to be a little more respect given to the President. I guess I might risk my life to save any President, but jumping in front a bullet for Clinton. I don't know I have to think on that one.
Politically I'm not sure I dig anybody anymore except Ronald Reagan. Bush lost my approval when I realized he had such crazy ideas about the border security, and his prosecutor put 3 guys in jail now for daring to try and arrest illegals one of which was a drug dealer. His administration has basically left these guys rot in jail that have been bravely defending our borders. Injustice makes me mad.
I don't ask for much I just want a President who is honest, fair, wise, spiritual, and morally conservative with a sense of justice and good judgement and the ability to communicate his ideas and policies effectively. Out of the whole blamed country there's got to be one guy that could win that fits that bill.
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| Posted: 03 Mar 2007 23:47 |
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This is an interesting point raising here, one that brings out one of the very reasons why I like and am such a fan of Captain America so much, the Apolotical view that Captain America can and does adopt, a view that he upholds the values of and not the different peoples interpretions and/or the maniuplations of.
So lets use "taking the bullet" as the anology, you wouldn't think about it, because it would be for the President, and therefore the nation as a whole.
Whilst I am not an American, so can't relate to the President as such, I do uphold the respect for the office of one's man or woman in charge(I am not a big fan of my PM for example) but I do respect the office.
The comman ground tends to be that I think we all hope that whoever may govern us does so in an honest, fair, wise, spiritual, and morally correct manner. Bit like Cap really.
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| Posted: 04 Mar 2007 20:03 |
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yep, even as a conservative I'd rather have a honest liberal than a dishonest conservative as a leader. That's assuming that a honest liberal politician isn't a oxymoron. I learned that word from wife.
The the beauty of a comic book character is that they can be presented in a way morally that everyone regardles of politics should be able to get behind except for those who are radical extremist.
I mean who can't get behind good defeats evil scenarios.
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| Posted: 06 Mar 2007 04:14 |
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So lets use "taking the bullet" as the anology, you wouldn't think about it, because it would be for the President, and therefore the nation as a whole.
That's my point exactly .
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assuming that a honest liberal politician isn't a oxymoron
Good one  .
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