| Posted: 22 Aug 2008 02:46 |
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But in the first one, at least gesture at the fact that Bucky does the dirty work Rogers can't as Cap. I think it'll make for a more layered character, instead of just a teenager in a domino mask. I guess use the characterization of Bucky that we saw in the WS arc, not just a gee-wiz kid.
Nah, I think its important that he stay the same innocent kid he was in the comics. It makes his death more effective in its tragedy.
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| Posted: 22 Aug 2008 03:28 |
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I totally agree that it should be a war movie. Hands down, definitely. But you have to have Skull in there, and the very last scene has to be him getting frozen. then they wake his a$$ up for the Avengers movie in one of the first scenes because the Cap the audience feels for will still be fresh in their minds.
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| Posted: 22 Aug 2008 11:16 |
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I still think they need to also use the REAL Nick Fury and his Howling Commandos (Not the Sam Jackson one) and keep it to the avengers finding Cap by accident,NOT some high tech crappy S.H.I.E.L.D. project.
Remember, Cap and Bucky were presumed dead, from a drome plane blowing up, with them on it! A massive search went on to find them and no bodies were recovered. Heck they were even replaced for morale purposes as the war against the Japs was still going on.
So why would a super peace keeping agency (S.H.I.E.L.D) as busy as they are waste time and resources over 50 years later looking for a hero from bygone days ( who really is just a perfect man without super powers) when they have the Avengers, F.F., Daredevil etc. It just doesn't wash with me.
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| Posted: 22 Aug 2008 15:34 |
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Because they weren't expecting to find Cap alive, they were trying to recover his DNA to get the Super Soldier Serum. The serum didn't work for anybody but Cap, and even modern geneticists couldn't crack the code. They were looking for Cap's corpse to get more DNA samples, to try creating new Super Soldiers.
In Ultimates Annual #1, they show that they had been trying new versions of the serum on people, creating new heroes, and one replacement for Cap, should Steve Rogers get killed in battle. The replacement died, however, because the serum was still unstable.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 01:51 |
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I say follow Avengers #4 in that regard. Have a sub up in the arctic (wouldn't it make a nice addition to have some still-lingering fears about Russia, given the current Georgian conflict, to have subs up there just in case like in the Cold War?) get a funky sonar signal. I mean, the real discovery involved Namor chucking the frozen block of ice (redundant much?) into the water because Inuits were worshiping it, but because a Namor movie isn't in the picture, you gotta make a few changes.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 05:30 |
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I think they should go with the original comic book plot and most of perhaps all of the movie be in WWII. Then in the Avengers movie they follow the Ultimate Avengers cartoon plot and make it so that they discover Cap frozen and thaw him out.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 14:31 |
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I still think they could use Namor in much the same way the Silver Surfer was used in the second Fantastic Four film. Granted his spot would be much shorter than the Surfer's appearance.
Please forget the Ultimates links as this has been done, is a separate universe and we definately didn't see an Ultimate Spidey or Daredevil. I've been around since the birth of the Marvel Age of Comics(1961) and all that Ultimates stuff ( yes I read those as well) needs to be kept separate before we have to start keeping a scorecard. One final note: It was those original stories from the sixties that provided the comic boom that allowed them to still be around today. So let's not turn our backs on where these stories came from.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 17:38 |
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It was those original stories from the sixties that provided the comic boom that allowed them to still be around today. So let's not turn our backs on where these stories came from.
I have to agree totally on that one. We need to focus on the original story--and not try to change everything.
I also agree that Namor should be used as the villain (the Avengers, I'm talking about). But perhaps not alone, he should be coerced into joining a group of superpowered bad guys, or something like that. And the bad guy could be Baron Zemo (he would also be a villain in the Cap movie too). I think that storyline was used in the first few issues of the Avengers as well.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 18:19 |
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Well having bought and read at the time, Namor made his first avengers appearance in issue 3 with the Hulk. It was issue 6 that featured Zemo and his Masters of Evil. Namor was not among them.
Sub-mariner was never really a villian at the time. He was more like a vengeful adversary and to the best of my memory his only teaming way back then was in issue 6 of Fantastic Four with Dr. Doom, who also was out to double cross Prince Namor as well.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 19:10 |
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Namor teaming up with Zemo's Masters of Evil could be one minor thing they could change, and he could be the guy that helps them fights the Avengers, but then at the end of the film, he has a change of heart and turns on his allies.
This is kind of unrelated, but with the Avengers movie, I only hear about Captain America, Thor, the Hulk, Iron Man, and Nick Fury. Now I know they may/may not include Ant-Man and the Wasp, but what about that other guy? I know he has no superpowers at all, but Rick Jones was a founding member of the Avengers, and he played a key role in the lives of Hulk and Captain America (Captain Mar-Vell too, but that's another story.) I felt that the Hulk movies really neglected the role of Rick Jones--he should have been in there. I think that he needs to be included in the Avengers movie--and the next Hulk movie, and a Cap sequel if there is one.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 19:15 |
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I agree 200% about Rick Jones. It was he and a group of teen boys at the time called the Teen Brigade. I do hope they do restore the physical appearance of Nick Fury. Possibly through an image inducer for a disguise to explain the Sam Jackson look. I'm not racially prejudice it's just the ultimates Nick is not who I grew up with.
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| Posted: 23 Aug 2008 21:13 |
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Red Skull should be the enemy in the movie.
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| Posted: 24 Aug 2008 00:16 |
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I'm not racially prejudice it's just the ultimates Nick is not who I grew up with.
You know, if Kurt Russell was younger, he would have made a good Nick Fury, if you ever saw him in Escape from New York. It doesn't bother me all that much about Fury being black (I mean, I'd rather him have his original look, but I'm not too upset with Jackson) because Fury was never one of my favorites. So to someone who really liked the original Fury, I understand, cause I'd be ticked off if they made one of my favorites like Cap, Hawkeye, or Spidey black. And I'm not racially prejudiced either.
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| Posted: 30 Sep 2008 10:00 Last Edited By: chasedrk1 |
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Why hasn't anyone considered Scott Caan for Cap? when proposed the question, the names that came up from people I was with were the usual...
Brad Pitt
Matt Damon!
Ben Affilack
& whats his face James Bond guy. (perfect, but British)
All those guys would disgust me as a cap fan. Scott Caan has the face can build with ease, & is quazie known enough to pull off stardom from it. Can anyone else see that out of him? or am I way off base?
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| Posted: 30 Sep 2008 11:19 |
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Scott Caan reminds me more of Woody Harrleson than Steve Rogers. I personally think thats off base but not way off.
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| Posted: 01 Oct 2008 00:19 |
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My personal pick, aside from the youtube mystery man of course, is Josh Lucas (Glory Road, Stealth). He was the only one not to mail in his performance in Stealth, and as soon as I saw that movie, with him as a soldier, that I thought of him for Cap. I know the strike against him is his age (37 I think), but the face and the soldier demeanor are spot on. Plus, when he as a little stubble going, he looks exactly as I would envision Cap in a war scenario - the grizzled warrior. But he also pulls it off with a lot of heart and compassion. I dunno, but if anyone feels the same way I do, I'd love to hear from you just so that I know I'm not alone in that idea. Just throwing it out there.
As for the Bucky characterization, I wrote out a pretty good scene (I'm a writer by trade, mostly sports, but I've done a lot of human interest pieces in my time) in which you preserve the attachment to Bucky and still have that WS element in there.
Here's a little sample, written from Steve's perspective as he sees his life go before his eyes in the ambulance on the way to the hospital during the events of Cap #25:
"His name is James Buchannan Barnes. I see him now, giving two trained Green Berets the beatings of their lives. He’s just a kid. Not even old enough to vote. His sweeping kicks and unerring fists are graceful. He moves like a dancer. It gives even me pause. Toweling off his face, he comes over to the jeep to shake my hand. I hear the general introduce him to me, but I’m still stuck in 15 minutes ago, still watching his acrobatics.
A domino mask and spirit gum. That’s all it takes to turn an orphan, the son of a soldier, into a warrior himself. He can fight. He can move like a shadow, more fleeting than an afterthought, easy as a breeze. He’s a fighter. As stubborn as I am. We’re both terrified as we sit in the belly of that plane. Two kids, thrust into a war that even the most hardened of men could never shake. We’re both petrified, but too proud to admit it. He smiles at me, and gives a wink. He’s a fighter. This is his element. Fear or no fear.
The nights I don’t see him at camp, I know he’s out there. Dirtying up his uniform so I don’t have to. Spilling the blood of evil men. He wasn’t just some teenage sidekick. He was as much a soldier as any man in that war. But no one would have suspected it.
One night, he slinked into camp. Well after midnight. But I was still up, studying maps, making contingency plans. He always told me to get more sleep. I never listened.
You never heard him unless he wanted you to. I hear a tentative footstep outside my tent. I open the flap. His mask is off. It dangles from his left hand. His eyes are distant. He’s been crying.
“Steve, what are we doing here?”
He sounds like an echo. I’ve never seen him like this.
“What we have to do.”
He looks up at me. I’ve never seen him question me, never seen him doubt me. But now it’s something worse, something I’d come to feel decades later. He’s doubting himself.
“Cap,”
He only calls me that when we’re in the field. Something big is going on in his head, but telepathy was never my strong suit.
“I saw them. I froze. Too big, just too big…”
“What’s too big, Buck?”
“The camps. I did what I was supposed to do. Picked off the guard, got in under the wire, went after the officers, just like I was supposed to. I slit the man’s throat. The only sound he made was a gurgle. They always gurgle. Eyes go wide. And it’s done.”
He held out his hands. Full of blood. Shaking. His voice was flat. Hollow. Detached. I forget that he’s still a teenager sometimes.
“I moved out, as quiet as I could. But as soon as I got to the fence again, I saw them. The bodies, Cap. The bodies. They weren’t people anymore. They were wood. Stacks of cordwood. Piled on each other.”
His breathing gets shallow. He sinks to his knees. I’ve never seen him like this. I’m still standing. I don’t know how. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to say.
“What are we supposed to do, Cap? In the face of all that? I can’t cut all that barbed wire. I can’t take them away without giving us away. I can’t help them. Any of them. They’re all dead, Cap. They just don’t know it yet.”
I didn’t think he could sink any further into himself, but he does. Shoulders slumped, eyes down, chest caved in. He never got to really be a kid. Never got to be afraid when all his pops had to do was turn on the light and make it alright. I get down on one knee. I take off my gloves and lift up his shoulders. He gets to his feet and looks at me. Straight in the eye.
“What can we do to stop evil like that?”
We do just what we’re doing now. Stand up. Dust ourselves off, and keep going. It’s all we can do. It’s what we have to do, because if we do anything else, we get eaten alive.
“But what do we have to stand up for?”
His jaw sets, resolute, looking at me to give him a reason. Just like Peter. Something more. Something he can hold on to. Something he can store away in his heart and bring out whenever he needs it. A light in the darkness. A light that is his.
I reach behind the table in my tent. I pull it out and hand it to him. He slips the straps over his left arm. Turns it around, raises and lowers it, feels the contours and tracing the colors. His finger comes to the star in the center.
That. We stand up for that. For that unreachable star. Because if we don’t try to get there, we’ll never get anywhere in this world. We stand up for what we can be. What we, what the world, could be.
I knew then that if anything ever happened to me, that shield didn’t belong in any hands other than his. Because he stood up straight. He’d gotten tall in these past few years. He had bristles on his chin. All of a sudden, the boy who came into the tent disappeared, and I realized that he’d grown up while I wasn’t looking. He was a better fighter than me. He just needed something to fight for.
The part of it that’s bigger than me …"
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| Posted: 01 Oct 2008 00:20 |
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My personal pick, aside from the youtube mystery man of course, is Josh Lucas (Glory Road, Stealth). He was the only one not to mail in his performance in Stealth, and as soon as I saw that movie, with him as a soldier, that I thought of him for Cap. I know the strike against him is his age (37 I think), but the face and the soldier demeanor are spot on. Plus, when he as a little stubble going, he looks exactly as I would envision Cap in a war scenario - the grizzled warrior. But he also pulls it off with a lot of heart and compassion. I dunno, but if anyone feels the same way I do, I'd love to hear from you just so that I know I'm not alone in that idea. Just throwing it out there.
As for the Bucky characterization, I wrote out a pretty good scene (I'm a writer by trade, mostly sports, but I've done a lot of human interest pieces in my time) in which you preserve the attachment to Bucky and still have that WS element in there.
Here's a little sample, written from Steve's perspective as he sees his life go before his eyes in the ambulance on the way to the hospital during the events of Cap #25:
"His name is James Buchannan Barnes. I see him now, giving two trained Green Berets the beatings of their lives. He’s just a kid. Not even old enough to vote. His sweeping kicks and unerring fists are graceful. He moves like a dancer. It gives even me pause. Toweling off his face, he comes over to the jeep to shake my hand. I hear the general introduce him to me, but I’m still stuck in 15 minutes ago, still watching his acrobatics.
A domino mask and spirit gum. That’s all it takes to turn an orphan, the son of a soldier, into a warrior himself. He can fight. He can move like a shadow, more fleeting than an afterthought, easy as a breeze. He’s a fighter. As stubborn as I am. We’re both terrified as we sit in the belly of that plane. Two kids, thrust into a war that even the most hardened of men could never shake. We’re both petrified, but too proud to admit it. He smiles at me, and gives a wink. He’s a fighter. This is his element. Fear or no fear.
The nights I don’t see him at camp, I know he’s out there. Dirtying up his uniform so I don’t have to. Spilling the blood of evil men. He wasn’t just some teenage sidekick. He was as much a soldier as any man in that war. But no one would have suspected it.
One night, he slinked into camp. Well after midnight. But I was still up, studying maps, making contingency plans. He always told me to get more sleep. I never listened.
You never heard him unless he wanted you to. I hear a tentative footstep outside my tent. I open the flap. His mask is off. It dangles from his left hand. His eyes are distant. He’s been crying.
“Steve, what are we doing here?”
He sounds like an echo. I’ve never seen him like this.
“What we have to do.”
He looks up at me. I’ve never seen him question me, never seen him doubt me. But now it’s something worse, something I’d come to feel decades later. He’s doubting himself.
“Cap,”
He only calls me that when we’re in the field. Something big is going on in his head, but telepathy was never my strong suit.
“I saw them. I froze. Too big, just too big…”
“What’s too big, Buck?”
“The camps. I did what I was supposed to do. Picked off the guard, got in under the wire, went after the officers, just like I was supposed to. I slit the man’s throat. The only sound he made was a gurgle. They always gurgle. Eyes go wide. And it’s done.”
He held out his hands. Full of blood. Shaking. His voice was flat. Hollow. Detached. I forget that he’s still a teenager sometimes.
“I moved out, as quiet as I could. But as soon as I got to the fence again, I saw them. The bodies, Cap. The bodies. They weren’t people anymore. They were wood. Stacks of cordwood. Piled on each other.”
His breathing gets shallow. He sinks to his knees. I’ve never seen him like this. I’m still standing. I don’t know how. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to say.
“What are we supposed to do, Cap? In the face of all that? I can’t cut all that barbed wire. I can’t take them away without giving us away. I can’t help them. Any of them. They’re all dead, Cap. They just don’t know it yet.”
I didn’t think he could sink any further into himself, but he does. Shoulders slumped, eyes down, chest caved in. He never got to really be a kid. Never got to be afraid when all his pops had to do was turn on the light and make it alright. I get down on one knee. I take off my gloves and lift up his shoulders. He gets to his feet and looks at me. Straight in the eye.
“What can we do to stop evil like that?”
We do just what we’re doing now. Stand up. Dust ourselves off, and keep going. It’s all we can do. It’s what we have to do, because if we do anything else, we get eaten alive.
“But what do we have to stand up for?”
His jaw sets, resolute, looking at me to give him a reason. Just like Peter. Something more. Something he can hold on to. Something he can store away in his heart and bring out whenever he needs it. A light in the darkness. A light that is his.
I reach behind the table in my tent. I pull it out and hand it to him. He slips the straps over his left arm. Turns it around, raises and lowers it, feels the contours and tracing the colors. His finger comes to the star in the center.
That. We stand up for that. For that unreachable star. Because if we don’t try to get there, we’ll never get anywhere in this world. We stand up for what we can be. What we, what the world, could be.
I knew then that if anything ever happened to me, that shield didn’t belong in any hands other than his. Because he stood up straight. He’d gotten tall in these past few years. He had bristles on his chin. All of a sudden, the boy who came into the tent disappeared, and I realized that he’d grown up while I wasn’t looking. He was a better fighter than me. He just needed something to fight for.
The part of it that’s bigger than me …"
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| Posted: 01 Oct 2008 00:26 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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All right so what's the main idea of what were getting here? The story i heard is this:
Captain America is a fictional character that appears in comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character first appeared in Captain America Comics #1 (March 1941), from Marvel Comics' 1940s predecessor, Timely Comics, and was created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. Over the years, an estimated 210 million copies of "Captain America" comic books have been sold in a total of 75 countries. Within the comics, the title "Captain America" applies to whomever is chosen by the U.S. government (which views itself as "owning" the persona) to wear the costume and bear the shield. For nearly all of the character's publication history, however, Captain America was the alter ego of Steve Rogers, a sickly young man who was enhanced to the peak of human perfection by an experimental serum in order to aid the United States war effort. Captain America wears a costume that utilizes an American flag motif, and is armed with an indestructible shield that can be thrown as a weapon.
An intentionally patriotic creation who was often depicted fighting the Axis powers of World War II, Captain America was Timely's most popular character during World War II. After the war ended, the character's popularity waned and he disappeared by the 1950s aside from an ill-fated revival in 1953. Captain America was reintroduced during the Silver Age of comics when he was revived from suspended animation by the superhero team the Avengers in The Avengers #4 (March 1964). Since then, Captain America has often led the team, as well as starring in his own series. Steve Rogers was killed in Captain America vol. 5, #25 (March 2007), although the Captain America series continues publication with Rogers' former sidekick, Bucky, having taken up the mantle.
Writer Joe Simon conceived the idea for Captain America, which was refined by his partner, artist Jack Kirby, in 1941. Captain America was a consciously political creation. Simon and Kirby were morally repulsed by the actions of Nazi Germany in the years leading up to the United States' involvement in World War II and felt war was inevitable. Simon later said, "The opponents to the war were all quite well organized. We wanted to have our say too."
Captain America Comics #1 (March 1941) — on sale in December 1940, a year before the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and already showing the protagonist punching Nazi leader Adolf Hitler in the jaw — sold nearly one million copies. While most readers responded favorably to the comic, some took objection. Simon noted, "When the first issue came out we got a lot of . . . threatening letters and hate mail. Some people really opposed what Cap stood for." Though preceded as a "patriotically themed superhero" by MLJ's The Shield, Captain America immediately became the most prominent and enduring of that wave of superheroes introduced in American comic books prior to and during World War II. With his sidekick Bucky, Captain America faced Nazis, Japanese and other threats to wartime America and the Allies. Captain America soon became Timely's most popular character and even had a fan-club called the "Sentinels of Liberty." Circulation figures remained close to a million copies per month after the debut issue, which outstripped even the circulation of news magazines like Time during the period.
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 10:44 |
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That "sold nearly one million copies" may be questionable since what I read that book sales back then were very inaccurate. But Cap was very popular and Timely did get a lot of mail on Cap.
Comics in the 40s went out to every newstands. After a month or two, the newstand would tear off the covers of unsold books and send them back to the publisher for a refund. Some stands hoarded their books which are now selling for thousands. In the 50s, changes in publishing and laws, lead to comics dissappearing from the newstands and just sold in convenience/variety/Mom-and-Pop stores. That limited the sales of comics and those stores became selective on what comics they sold. There were some comic specialty stores in the 60s and 70s, but it was the 80s that Comic stores exploded. They bought the comics and kept them, which lead the publishers to keep most of the profits, lead to increase wages and creators finding a career in the comic markets. Plus independent books like Cerebus and Turtles found buyers and a medium which will keep them financially profitable to keep publishing. Until the late 90s, where there was a drop of comic sales and people leaving the comic stores. Still, comics are still selling, not in the Millions (like Spawn no. 1), and hopefully there will be another Boom period for comics.
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 16:32 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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Well it's pretty obvious. Threw the 1930's-1950 was
The Great Depression. Every once in a while a few things were sold, because of all the people didn't have money. It was a sad time, that's why WE the people, have taken these things for granit, complaining of something like, "I ordered a PLAIN cheese burger, not everything on it!"
Now back then, people were greatful to even have a little food, like left overs.
Captain America was called off, after The Great Depression. Even as his popularity went shooting up.
Then Stan Lee came along, he created many Marvel heroes. Tha's why he picked up on the Captain America story, and told the people he was frozen in a block of ice at the end WWII. He popularity sky rocketed waay up...and stayed there because all the other heroes were being shot up with popularity, then came the Hulk movie and T.V. show he was popular, and others such as: Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and Iron Man.
Cap's popularity stayed way up, thne 1991 came along with the movie, people saw it, made them change there minds about Captain America, and it went down a little. Captain America stayed there, a little lower than the others, and it will stay there.
Some Marvel fans don't even know Cap's dead. So that's why there's only like 45 people that want to write comics about Cap.
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 19:22 |
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I think the Great Depression ended before 1950. From what I understood, it was really the advent of America entering WWII that ended it.
__________________
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 20:10 |
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It was FDR that ended it.
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 11:59 |
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The Great Depression began with the stock market crash in Oct. 1929 and pretty much ran until 1939 when the U.S. was starting to gear up for possibly entering WWII. Britain was already at war with the Nazis and the U.S. was sending volunteers(mainly the Army Air Corp).
We were not getting fully into the war at this point as F.D.R. had promised in his last run for the Presindency not to plunge the U.S. into it unless we were attacked.
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 23:21 |
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The plot synopsis was just leaked. CBM has it: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/the_first_avenger_captain_america/n ...
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| Posted: 07 Oct 2008 00:24 |
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Atomic, that's what I mean, somewhere between the eras.
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 18:52 |
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That character scene between Bucky and Captain America was FAB!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice nice writing!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have wondered what reaction Bucky would have to the concentration camp horrors. After all, as an American and a teenager he would have no points of reference, and if grown American soldiers were horrified and cried at the sight of the Holocaust survivors in the newly liberated camps, what would the reaction of a teenager be?
Estsanatlehi
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 21:30 |
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Anyone read that plot synopsis? Didn't tell much about the shape and look of what the Cap movie is going to be about? No mention that it must be a war movie, that means big battles, a lot of soldiers, tanks and explosions, ...and Cap charging into battle.
Costumes, I love the classic Marvel costume, but I don't mind seeing Cap don that Ultimate WW2 combat suit for a beach raid. Hey, Iron man had 3 different suits.
Character, have to be the Marvel Steve Rogers, quiet, inspirational, progressive-thinking (Knew/wanted America to enter the war in early 41), determined and confident. That Ultimate, abrasive, cruel and bitter (Becoming Cap in 43 with lines like 'don't want to work with dames', Ultimate origin left me cold).
I'll probably add more, but I love to read your views.
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 23:27 |
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Registered User
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Posts: 1825
Join Date: May 2007
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Read that website, and Will Smmith might play...why? They need 2 different Cap movies, the orgin, and the black Cap.
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 20:21 |
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Registered User
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Posts: 247
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I just went onto screenrant.com (posted 10/6). According to them it is confirmed that the movie will be entirely in the 40's. Release date 6 May 2011, and the Avengers to be released 15 July 2011. Has anybody seen on other sites info?
Estsanatlehi
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 22:48 |
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Registered User
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Posts: 1825
Join Date: May 2007
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Yes, it's been aproved that will be taken place in WWII.
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