| Posted: 24 Jan 2007 05:29 |
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(I'm reposting- but this didn't belong in the tainted "Matt Damon" forum.)
What about Cap's movie costume? What should it look like?
Wings? Sans wings? Mask? Helmet? Motorcycle helmet? (don't laugh, it has been done before.)
No offense to Steve Rogers for wrapping himself in the flag + some odd sort of scales around the shoulders- BUT modern audiences have seen a lot of military footage lately. Many guys watching this movie will have had seen a LOT of combat. After that much realism, blue spandex might not cut it. Bear in mind I am NOT advocating X-Men leather. Dyed blue, this would have America's living symbol of liberty looking like a car seat.
There needs to be some practicality in explaining the costume. It can be like the comics- lets just have an explanation. I was always bothered by the Spider-Man outfit in the first movie. If it was so easy to make that expensive looking costume on a high school student's budget then why didn't Parker do this in the first place? Oh wait, he got upset about Uncle Ben's death and channeled his guilt and rage into clever fabric selection and sewing. At least Uncle Ben did not die in vain, but I'm glad they didn't show that part. At least X-Men confronted this issue with some humor.
I personally feel there is some possibility in a costume that makes sense in the 40's, but not in the modern world. Lets say Cap is also bothered by the notion that he was taken seriously in that costume in 1941, but in the modern world, its not taken seriously. He's steamed because he feels like a PR stunt to put a familiar face on corrupt policies.
Maybe he ditches the outfit for awhile to be taken seriously and do the sort of anti-terrorism work that demands secrecy, not a gigantic flag-man. He wins this way and learns some new tricks, but as things start gaining momentum for the big fight... he notices there is something missing. Then we see a redesigned Cap outfit for the big showdown.
I know there are some artists out there (and some right here). Some 2010 Cap costume fan art would spruce up the forum, I'd wager.
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| Posted: 24 Jan 2007 08:30 |
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I'd say his costume should look like it does in the current Captain America comic. Dark Navy Blue, with shielding plates on his upper torso, and wings with a mask no helmet, thats for like current day Cap.
As for WW II Cap, I think he should look like he did in the WW II scene at the beginning of The Ultimate Avengers movie, including the shield. I'd like to see him start with that shield and then receive the round admantium in the present. But I'd be willing to see him have a round shield in WW II, as long as it dented and stuff, unlike the present day admantium one would.
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| Posted: 24 Jan 2007 17:43 |
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Well definitely not like this guy from the credit card commercial.
 He sort of looks like a dork here.
He should look like Autocomber says. Like he does in the latest books sort of darkly clad, but keep the wings. He looks bald or something without the wings.
And he needs to look like he means business. It's all in the face.
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| Posted: 24 Jan 2007 22:09 |
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I forgot about that Credit card commercial. End of story, WE'VE FOUND OUR CAP ACTOR!!!
Sort of like a dork, he's complete GOOBER!
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 01:07 |
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I love that commercial!!!
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 01:13 |
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I like the commercial too, but the Cap they got was a real nerd. I guess it was meant to be funny though.
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 02:27 |
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Quote:
What about Cap's movie costume? What should it look like? Stay close to the original design but modernize it, like the Batman Begins costume.
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Wings? Sans wings? Mask? Helmet? Motorcycle helmet? (don't laugh, it has been done before.) Mask without wings, I think that would be intimidating for an enemy troop to see an America soldier with a dark blue mask with a giant 'A' on it coming right at him.
Maybe a helmet for the WWII scenes.
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No offense to Steve Rogers for wrapping himself in the flag + some odd sort of scales around the shoulders I think that was some type of chainmail.
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modern audiences have seen a lot of military footage lately. Many guys watching this movie will have had seen a LOT of combat. Good observation, his suit would have to be combat practical or you will have a theatre full of vets going "he looks like a giant target!"
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There needs to be some practicality in explaining the costume. It can be like the comics- lets just have an explanation. Maybe have a set of dark blue combat fatigues laced with adamantium. Or if that makes him to indestructible for some peoples taste, a kevlar weave. Have the suit turn a knife and stop grazing fire. Keep the colors darker, like the Brandon Routh Superman Costume and have the whites of the costume flat and as dull as possible. I say stick with the red boots only very dark and flat and jungle or combat style. Have the mask be part of his uniform, a hood he can pull over his face. If the whites wind up being too bright, maybe have the shield just be red and blue. I would have to see some concept drawings.
Maybe even a form fitting sneaking suit, like Solid Snake, that might be to unbeleivable though.
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If it was so easy to make that expensive looking costume on a high school student's budget then why didn't Parker do this in the first place? I always wonder about this. How did a kid with no money or resources make an eleborate costume? Every Halloween the people at the costume stores and web sites have in large print: WE CAN'T MAKE THE SPIDER-MAN MOVIE COSTUME. I also thought this contridictad what Sam Raimi said about Peter not making his web-shooters. He said if Peter made his web-shooters that would make him seem to smart and the audience would not be able to identify with that. How are we supposed to identify with a kid with no money that makes a costume that can only be made by a team of proffesionals that worked on the movie? Just my little nitpick.
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I personally feel there is some possibility in a costume that makes sense in the 40's, but not in the modern world. Lets say Cap is also bothered by the notion that he was taken seriously in that costume in 1941, but in the modern world, its not taken seriously. This would make a great scene for the movie.
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Maybe he ditches the outfit for awhile to be taken seriously and do the sort of anti-terrorism work that demands secrecy, not a gigantic flag-man. Does my above description fit the bill? Or do I need to go completely military?
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He wins this way and learns some new tricks, but as things start gaining momentum for the big fight... he notices there is something missing. Then we see a redesigned Cap outfit for the big showdown. Holy *$%^ would this be a cool ending! No more camoflauge or secrecy. Just the American flag coming right at you. E-mail this to Hollywood. Stat!
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I know there are some artists out there Yeah, get carackin' on some concept drawings.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 02:34 |
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I would be OK with the 'Secret War' Cap wings on the mask/hood. Liky my avatar.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 05:01 |
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I never really thought about Spidey's costume in the movie except the fact that he knew it looked cheesy in the wrestling match, but did the best he could with the 'time' that he had. Think, from the time he wore that lame costume (which I thought was great for the story line) to when he started helping people as Spidey, Peter had graduated from high school, moved to the city, and was in college. Seems like he had all summer to work on it.
As for CAP, I was in the Marines, and I know I may be a bit biased with my pro-CAP costume approach, but I would not think CAP was so much of a target with his costume, as I would think "Damn, he's huge target, and he's still going after the enemy!"
You have to remember that CAP is hero, and I would not like to see too much done with his costume in a movie. I liked the Ultimates approach. The helmet look in WWII and the wing-less spandex costume in the present. I thought CAP looked tough both ways. Only thing I did not like about the Ultimate CAP costume was the red stars on the shoulders. Red Stars are a sign of communisim and do not look good on his shoulders anyway.
Keep CAP a big, buff dude with the attitude and morals that we all know he needs to have, and the costume will be accepted with a good script. Remember , it's a comic movie, and people want heros that look like heros. At least I do. Of course I liked X-men's leather costumes, but that was because a score of heros with all different costumes, all different colors would have looked silly. There is only one CAP, and only one costume needed. Spidey's costume was not rediculous, was it?
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 05:31 |
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As for CAP, I was in the Marines Semper Fi.
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but I would not think CAP was so much of a target with his costume, as I would think "Damn, he's huge target, and he's still going after the enemy!" A good point. I guy with a costume you can see a mile away charging you would be quite unnerving.
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You have to remember that CAP is hero, and I would not like to see too much done with his costume in a movie. I know he's a hero and would have no problem with whatever costume he would wear. You and I can relate to that, but would joe average who knows nothing about Cap beleive a guy in bright colors running into battle? Not that we care, but as Danny pointed out earlier, movies are about making money. So the director is going to do whatever he wants no matter what comic fans think. I think we should try to be somewhat open minded about the costume and not like the hard-core Superman fans who were pissed because the the new Superman wan not theirversion of Superman. But as I said earlier, hopefully they won't stray too far from the source material.
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The helmet look in WWII and the wing-less spandex costume in the present. I thought CAP looked tough both ways . Me too.
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Only thing I did not like about the Ultimate CAP costume was the red stars on the shoulders. Red Stars are a sign of communisim and do not look good on his shoulders anyway. I agree about the red stars on his shoulders, probably should have been white, or just leave the shoulders blank.
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Remember , it's a comic movie, and people want heros that look like heros I'm one of them! If Cap is dressed in normal fatigues I won't be happy.
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There is only one CAP, and only one costume needed. Cool. The ultimate Cap would be a good one to use for the movie.
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Spidey's costume was not rediculous, was it? No, it was cool. I just wondered how Peter could make it on budget when it took a team of costume proffesional to make it. I saw it on the special features. Long process. How do people have that kind of talent?
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 05:40 |
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I understand both sides here. Danny is looking for practicality in the costume. WHO is looking for homage to a great hero.
I going to wager a guess and say since were all Cap fans we should be able to go either way as long as the source material is treated with reverence.
It worked with Spider-Man and LOTR because the directors stayed close to the source material.
I love movies. I'm not a book person, but I love my graphic novels. So I am all for seeing my heroes on the big screen. So when I go to films like these, I try to keep an open mind. However, if they screw up, I'll be the first one to point it out.
I worry because it seems alot of people in the audience are there just to be a pain in the @#%. At Superman, there seemed to be just as many there to mock him as there were people who loved him. I fear the same for Cap. I find it sad that people don't like heroes who are good and moral like Cap and Superman.
Am I making any sense?
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 25 Jan 2007 17:25 |
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Good observation, his suit would have to be combat practical or you will have a theatre full of vets going "he looks like a giant target!"
But there is one other way to look at it though. Cap's colorful costume is part of his patriotic symbolism. It serves the purpose of drawing enemy fire away from our soldiers while antagonizing the enemy with American sybolism. Cap may get a lot more bullets his way, but he's got the shield and he never stands still long enough for someone to get a good aim on him.
Having said that though I like the idea of a darker kind of blue on his costume. I think it looks more like the WW2 era.
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Maybe he ditches the outfit for awhile to be taken seriously and do the sort of anti-terrorism work that demands secrecy, not a gigantic flag-man. That sort of defeats Cap's main objective and that's symbolizing liberty in the face of our enemies. It's part of the battle to get your enemy so mad he can't think straight.
I think when it's all said and done the creators of the movie have a difficult task to bring Cap to the screen and do it right, but it's not an impossible task.
Personally, I want a realistic Cap, but not too realistic. It needs to draw you in and create an atmosphere that makes you forget to question the costume, forget the fact he sticks out like a sore thumb and just focus on his heroics, what he stands for, and creates a feeling of pride in America and just a total feel good movie.
There is nothing but ho-hum down in the dumps and all around depressing movies focused on being real out there today. I think Hollywood has forgot it's mission, and that's to entertain. Movies like a Captain America film should be something a father can take a son without fear of hurting the kids' moral view of life, and it should be something that brings that sense of wonderment to the kid the way Superman the movie once did for my generation.
Superman Returns should have been that movie for this generation, but instead it came out as a good movie, but not one that will be remembered in years to come the way Superman the Movie has been. It was too dark, not enough happy moments, and it left out the reasons Superman is so popular, his super character.
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| Posted: 26 Jan 2007 03:58 |
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But there is one other way to look at it though. Cap's colorful costume is part of his patriotic symbolism. It serves the purpose of drawing enemy fire away from our soldiers while antagonizing the enemy with American sybolism. I can't believe I didn't think of that. Draw fire..keeps normal soldiers out of harms way..antagonization. Gotcha.
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I think when it's all said and done the creators of the movie have a difficult task to bring Cap to the screen and do it right, but it's not an impossible task. I agree. As I stated earlier, I like actually seeing a tangible hero on the screen. So when it comes to a movie, I give them a fair amount of room to screw up. I could go with a military Cap or classic Cap, as long as I get to see Cap portrayed seriously. Like Richard Donner said about Superman, no camp.
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Movies like a Captain America film should be something a father can take a son without fear of hurting the kids' moral view of life, and it should be something that brings that sense of wonderment to the kid the way Superman the movie once did for my generation. I'm taking my daughter to Captain America, she's already asking about it. And it would be cool to have another super hero movie do what Superman did.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 26 Jan 2007 08:28 |
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Superman just could have been better. I think that sums it up. Not abrasively bad, just not the knockout we hoped for. Honestly, I never understood what was so wrong with that suit. It was the same, with darker colors than you usually saw on Superman. It didn't have an S on the back. It had a new one on the belt. This didn't exactly keep me up at night.
I think the real success of that suit, like any Superman costume is that i never heard ANYONE bring up the underwear outside of pants issue. Maybe this is mean to say but with Dean Cain- you heard about that a lot more often.
Last thing about Sup Returns- that whole movie was shot (or edited) with a grey or blue effect on the film- it ALL looked a little darker.
Anyway, this question has generated some interesting replies. Like I said, I'm cool with a variety of styles on the costume- I just want it explained. The kevlar is a good idea- I'd rather not see bullets bounce off Cap, there should be some real consequences with him thinking his way out of situations. You can't always count on the your enemy to shoot like a Stormtrooper.
Likewise for the Super-Soldier serum. We actually have something not too unlike this now in modern steroids. After the BALCO deal, I'd like to see this addressed somehow in the movie. At first, I thought "hrmmm... maybe he should just train his way into being Cap" but then thought better of it. How much more interesting to see him confront this issue. There is a big difference between world war and home-run records after all. Is it justified? Why him? Why not on crippled people? Hell, why didn't they use it on FDR first? Bear in mind I'm just raising plausible story arcs, not going after Cap.
The batsuit... Tim brought up a good point in that they always put him in this rubber casing where he can't even turn his head. This made it interesting for how Micheal Keaton moved- but as time wore on it was like "wait a sec- can this guy even lift his arms over his head? No wonder he kicks a lot..." On the other hand- the script of Batman Begins did a beautiful job of EXPLAINING the weapons in ways we'd never even thought of. Old military prototypes? Ninja armor? Perfect- this all made a lot more sense, much more than ice skates in the soles, or God forbid- Bat-shark-Repellent.
With the actual look of the suit on Cap, I'm for no wings, no red stars (which looked a bit like an afterthought- obviously that costume was too fun to draw and he just kept going) and a balance of practicality and patriotism. I say keep it simple and functional.
The X-men could really get away with going to all black because really, their costumes aren't so iconic. They've all looked a million ways over the years- Wolverine hardly bothers with a mask half the time. It made more sense to just mess with things until they looked cool on film. Cap is going to be very, very different.
Take him totally out of the suit and he's a well mannered James Bond. The most practical suit would be black or blue/grey fatigue, like the NATO uniforms for urban fighting in eastern europe. But then its a Batman movie.
Obviously the WWII costume should appear- but what if IT looks more realistic than the modern version? If we're still in Iraq by the time this movie gets out then it will have lasted longer than WWII. Cap is going to have to fight terrorism, probably in urban settings just to be in a context our audiences will understand. I think the costume, for that reason, is going to have to move away from the mainline comic at least some.
Personally, I think they should they work in the PR angle. When the Skull used this against Cap and John Walker it was one of his most memorable schemes. Of course, Cap just said "no dice", but it really messed with John Walker's head. I'll never forget the panels where he had just lost his parents, killed (he thought) his friends Right Winger and Left Winger and his boss comes by to shove another Cap costume in his face, telling him to "put it on until we can figure out what to do with you!" Walker, you poor crazy bastard, go beat up some minor characters till you feel better bro. Seriously, thats what he did.
Anyway, I think that conflict over the suit itself would be an interesting way to go about the Cap costume business. We could see a variety of costumes, and get a good solid explanation not just of WHY the costume looks like it does, or repels knives or sharks- but also what it means to him and what it represents to everyone else. So much of any superhero origin story IS the costume- it kind of goes double in this case.
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| Posted: 26 Jan 2007 17:09 |
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One thing's for sure I don't want Cap so weighted down he loses his acrobatic skills the way they've done to Batman. He still has the shield for protection so that should be his main tool going into battle otherwise he'd just be Iron Man or Tank Man.
I still say Cap looks bald without the wings.
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| Posted: 29 Jan 2007 16:13 |
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I just thought of something. I had mentioned a kevlar weave in the Cap suit earlier. That might be a bad idea, as it would make the suit heavier and cut down on Caps acrobatics. A normal suit would probably be better as to showcase Caps speed, agility and fighting prowess. He's just that good and extra weight would slow him down.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 29 Jan 2007 19:26 |
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Right, the shield is enough protection for Cap in my book.
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| Posted: 31 Jan 2007 07:39 |
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They could make a vest that looks like its dense but in reality is quite light weight. That way we get the look without the loss of speed and agility. I mean its just a costume for a movie, it doesnt have to live up to real combat situations.
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| Posted: 31 Jan 2007 19:13 |
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I was watching the science channel and they were saying that in 50 years soldiers will have lightweight clothes that feel like regular easy moving cloth, but the second a bullet hits it, the cloth becomes hard enough to deflect a bullet or blunt object.
Sounds like something out of a comic book doesn't it?
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| Posted: 01 Feb 2007 01:35 |
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Quote:
I was watching the science channel and they were saying that in 50 years soldiers will have lightweight clothes that feel like regular easy moving cloth, but the second a bullet hits it, the cloth becomes hard enough to deflect a bullet or blunt object.
Sounds like something out of a comic book doesn't it? Technology is an amazing thing. Now they have real equipment that only used to exist in stories. Creepy.
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 01 Feb 2007 15:28 Last Edited By: Tim |
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I think scientists get their ideas from science fiction writers. It's kind of weird when you think about it. A kid reads a comic book or watches a movie, and grows up to be a inventor and spends years developing the ideas he saw as a kid into a reality.
Goes to show what you can do if you put your mind to it.
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| Posted: 23 Mar 2007 14:06 |
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I work in the industry that makes (and uses) some of the items mentioned in many movies (one of the reasons why I still read comics to this day, even though my work buddies razz me). As far as the costume goes, you won't find much on the net, but there is a fabric in development called "inertial fabric" that will eventually replace the modern day bullet resistant vests. All Kevlar really is, several tight woven threads banded together to provide a shield. It doesn't always stop the bullet from pushing into the body, but it does prevent it from penetrating. If we are able to provide higher density fabrics to do the same job, it will be much less bulky and would resemble what Cap's uniform is supposed to be. In the chest area around the heart, it will be a long time before a trauma plate can be replaced (you obviously want nothing to be able to push into the body there), but in other areas, it is very likely that with in the next few years, vests will become a thing of the past. I realize we are talking about the future, but it is in the works. Only problem with using this as the uniform is the material being worked with is very shiny and would make Cap look like is is straight out of a Saturday Night Fever movie (that could easily be covered in the movie though).
Just food for thought.
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| Posted: 30 Mar 2007 17:28 |
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The Army has been working on a SIPE uniform part of the force 21. What DOD is planning to have for soldiers.It has high tech/storm trooper feel. The look can work for cap. It will have a automatic camo. When not in combat go with the dark blues and red. but in cobat it can change but still hold the Cap outline. Much like the Batman Begins the costumes odd parts can have a functional purpose. Wings ie coms radar whatever.
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| Posted: 01 Apr 2007 07:29 |
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Sorry guys but I've got to say that Cap sans the red-white-and blue wouldn't be Cap. He has been drawn with a blue that is almos black, a deep navy and as for the wings I think that now a coustom with them could still be rendered believable, the difference in the TV batman and then the latter movie coustomes shows how much difference there can be. As for material it was establishe as far back as the 1970s that Cap's coustom is at least partly fine chainmail.
I fear that the more liberties the studieos take with Cap, the more liberties they will take!
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| Posted: 15 Jun 2007 23:49 |
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You.. you.. you don't belive in the dream.
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| Posted: 15 Jul 2007 06:23 |
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FANTASY
Cap looks like a Jack Kirby drawing
REALITY
Cap looks exactly as he does in the awesome cut scenes in Marvel Ultimate Alliance - a lighter blue, almost grey shade of blue
FANTASY
Cap flies a super jet or rides a super motorcyle
REALITY
Cap rides a chopper in civilian life, but drives a military-grad hummer in battle tgat us equiped with guns, rockets and grenades
FANTASY
Cap in short-shorts, buccaneer boots, chain mail and wings on his mask
REALITY
Cap looks more like a soldier as he does in Ultimates 2 with the helmet/mask with chinstrap - but he needs a kevlar vest and baggy cargo pants to go along with his lace-up combat boots.
FANTASY
Bucky Barnes in a domino mask and shorts
REALITY
Sam Jackson as Nick Fury in camoflauge fatigues
__________________I want a giant penny and a lifesize T-Rex statue in my high tech basement.
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| Posted: 15 Jul 2007 15:21 |
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You get the piont.
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2007 15:36 |
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Quote:
FANTASY
Cap looks like a Jack Kirby drawing
REALITY
Cap looks exactly as he does in the awesome cut scenes in Marvel Ultimate Alliance - a lighter blue, almost grey shade of blue
FANTASY
Cap flies a super jet or rides a super motorcyle
REALITY
Cap rides a chopper in civilian life, but drives a military-grad hummer in battle tgat us equiped with guns, rockets and grenades
FANTASY
Cap in short-shorts, buccaneer boots, chain mail and wings on his mask
REALITY
Cap looks more like a soldier as he does in Ultimates 2 with the helmet/mask with chinstrap - but he needs a kevlar vest and baggy cargo pants to go along with his lace-up combat boots.
FANTASY
Bucky Barnes in a domino mask and shorts
REALITY
Sam Jackson as Nick Fury in camoflauge fatigues. Good points.
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I want a giant penny and a lifesize T-Rex statue in my high tech basement. Dude! You're Batman!
__________________Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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| Posted: 16 Jul 2007 16:28 Last Edited By: Pole805 |
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Lol!!!!!!
AWESOME, pour some sugar on me!
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| Posted: 29 Apr 2008 03:26 |
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In the first issue of the Ultimates, Kowalski is bitching about Cap and how ridiculous he thinks the idea of their "superweapon" is. Show a scene like this to validate the color scheme. Two soldiers talking to each other:
"Who the hell does that guy think he's gonna sneak up on in that get-up? The Jerries will cut 'im to ribbons!"
"I guess you don't know Cap to well, pal... he ain't sneaking up on anybody. He's going right up the middle!"
To me, WWII Cap should look almost identical to the beginning of the Ultimates. Look at the coloring. Olive Drab is not your usual shade of green, just like Coyote Brown is not exactly standard. The very subdued shade of blue applied to a military style uniform works great, and would be fine in real life. A dark shade of red (fired brick or red bay on sherwin-williams.com) would compliment it well.
Cap in the present would be the same color scheme added to a combination of modern military and SWAT gear, applied to the template of the classic costume.
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